Gig 'em @ NDstructible Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 I was under the impression that they eat aiptasia and concentrate the stinging cells within themselves for protection against predators. It would make sense then that they're only interested in the cells of the aiptasia because that's where the stinging cells are concentrated. Typically anemones don't have stinging cells in their pedal disk, so eating that part of the anemone would be a waste of effort on the part of the berghia. Just my thoughts on why they leave the base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 I was under the impression that they eat aiptasia and concentrate the stinging cells within themselves for protection against predators. It would make sense then that they're only interested in the cells of the aiptasia because that's where the stinging cells are concentrated. Typically anemones don't have stinging cells in their pedal disk, so eating that part of the anemone would be a waste of effort on the part of the berghia. Just my thoughts on why they leave the base.To add to that, I think its partially a self-survival mechanism as well. Eat the stinging cells, incorporate, leave the base to regrow so you can eat more later. I've always observed many snails do something very similar with their rasping tongues on the glass. It clears out most of the film algae but leaves just enough so that it can regrow quickly to not deplete the food source. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gig 'em @ NDstructible Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 I agree with Ty. They can't completely destroy their food source or they'd go extinct. Something humans should learn based on the way we burn through our natural resources [emoji26] 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+KimP Posted July 29, 2016 Author Share Posted July 29, 2016 That first one must've gotten a sting and sent out some signal to the rest of the gang that it found food.I'm curious as to what the actual mechanism that alerts here. Would a pheromone like scent work in that manner? Likely not. Do they have eyes or some visual receptor that caught the quick movement? If so, how are they identifying between food and flight?Super interesting Kim! I'm really curious about it too!! One of these days I want to look up any research that's been done on them and see if someone's figured this out. I was under the impression that they eat aiptasia and concentrate the stinging cells within themselves for protection against predators. It would make sense then that they're only interested in the cells of the aiptasia because that's where the stinging cells are concentrated. Typically anemones don't have stinging cells in their pedal disk, so eating that part of the anemone would be a waste of effort on the part of the berghia. Just my thoughts on why they leave the base. This is what I've read too. The tassels are called cerata and that's where digestion (among other things) happens. So they eat the aiptasia and all the pieces go out into their certata. They turn from white to whatever color the aiptasia was. It's really neat! Apparently they even consume and utilize the zooxanthellae, in addition to using the stinging cells. I was under the impression that they eat aiptasia and concentrate the stinging cells within themselves for protection against predators. It would make sense then that they're only interested in the cells of the aiptasia because that's where the stinging cells are concentrated. Typically anemones don't have stinging cells in their pedal disk, so eating that part of the anemone would be a waste of effort on the part of the berghia. Just my thoughts on why they leave the base.To add to that, I think its partially a self-survival mechanism as well. Eat the stinging cells, incorporate, leave the base to regrow so you can eat more later. I've always observed many snails do something very similar with their rasping tongues on the glass. It clears out most of the film algae but leaves just enough so that it can regrow quickly to not deplete the food source. I was thinking this too. A couple of times now they've eaten off the tentacles of a couple aiptasia and it's grown back to be eaten again. When there was only one or two aiptasia in the tank they ate the entire thing though, so I guess it matters how hungry they are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+KimP Posted July 29, 2016 Author Share Posted July 29, 2016 A few days ago I went ahead and did a water change on the egg container. I decided to just skim water gently and slowly off of the very top. Then I set up another spaghetti sauce jar and moved the remaining egg swirls into it and labeled them. Now I'll refer to them as jar 1 and jar 2, etc, etc. The aiptasia in jar 1 was looking a little rough yesterday and I can see tiny white dots all over the bottom of the jar without any magnification. All good signs. I was thinking maybe I'll just start a new jar every week and pull the egg swirls out of the 3g once a week. They hatch every 10-14 days so I'd have a rough idea of the age of the berghia inside this way. That's probably not important but seems like a good idea anyway to spread them out a bit. Everywhere I read it seems like the berghia don't need aeration. I'm still not sure about this but I have noticed the water is colder than my DT, so I am kind of considering moving the jars into my sump. Have them sit on a platform to keep the temp stable. Keep the lids on to cut down on evaporation, but I bet I could get away with a hole or two in the lid. Just need to decide if that won't be too much of a pain to get under my DT everyday to top them off. Water changes would be simple this way since I use DT water anyway. I only fill the jars up about half way so the surface to water volume ratio isn't too low. I'd keep the 3g tank out on my counter though because I have a heater for it I might just add. I don't see a good way to keep the jars warmer though, so that's why I thought of the sump. There's a couple articles on breeding berghia and that's about what they suggested. Today I'm picking up another little tank to start an aiptasia tank! I can't believe I'm doing it. The bucket seems more fitting but it's an eyesore in the kitchen and razor blades don't work to scrape the aiptasia off the side. I need glass for that. It'll be easier to keep an eye on it in a real tank. So next I'll be reading up on ways to get these things to spread, although I feel like I'm already an expert in that area according to my DT over the years Now the trick will be propagating aiptasia in a tank with no fish or coral, although I did think I should put a frag or two in there so the aiptasia thinks it's a reef tank, ha! Now I need to go make my own Julian's thing and start spot feeding the aiptasia! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SChrisEV Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Just be careful, as you know aiptasia are fast spreading, I also heard that they can fly through the air and get into your display tank! I think it works like when dandelion get caught up in the wind and spread. I got this from a repeatable source! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12_egg_omelette Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 This is awesome. I just out 10 of these in my tank and two egg swirls. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+KimP Posted July 31, 2016 Author Share Posted July 31, 2016 This is awesome. I just out 10 of these in my tank and two egg swirls. Great!! I'll be interested to hear if they work for you! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 Still trying to figure out how I feel about having my name attached to this project. A technique I've seen with researchers, aquaculture facilities and fish wholesalers is to "soft plumb" tanks for easy drainage and removal. The tanks are set up on a rack with a trough or a drip pan on the back end or underneath. A supply line runs above them and each location for a tank has a valve that feeds the tank from above but is not attached to the tank. The tank may be a molded polycarbonate that has a spillway molded in or valve and stand pipe feeding to a trough or drian pan to channel water to a central filter. This type of setup lets each tank be very quickly removed for cleaning or research or replaced with a clean, sterile tank if needed since there's no plumbing or equipment to disconnect or remove. For your project is seems something similar would work. You have room to set a tray your sump which would help with temperature and access (keep your four boys from messing with them ). The tray could be a tubberware container or something custom to hold your jars. You could tap off your manifold with airline tubing and valve to each jar. Then have a very slow drip you could turn off during the larval stage. Since they are mildly photo phobic you could paint the tray black or have it made with black plastic so the babies tend to stay at the bottom (although you probably won't mind some escaping into your system. ) (I can't believe I'm worrying about running out of aiptasia before you figure out how to raise them. I'm going to have to schedule some extra sessions with my therapist, can you give me your card number or your address to send the bill to please! ) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+KimP Posted August 10, 2016 Author Share Posted August 10, 2016 I've been overdue for an update. Things are running on autopilot at this point, at least for a few more weeks until the first batch of babies is ready to get out of a jar. The aiptasia tank is working well. There are several teeny tiny aiptasia on the glass and sandbed now that have been really easy to scrape off and drop in the jars with the eggs and juveniles. I read in an article that dark cycles cause the aiptasia to bud off a bunch of tiny baby aiptasia, so I've kinda been trying that. It's been interesting focusing on all the things you can do wrong in a tank to favor aiptasia. Mostly I've just been really inconsistent with the light and feeding the refrigerated oyster feast, roti-feast, etc etc. Put some neat hermits in this weekend to contribute to a bioload. As of Fri i have 3 jars going, the main tank with the adult berghia, and the aiptasia tank. Doing the same method for water changes, although with my heater busting on my DT, I did reconsider using my big tank for water change water. I think this is the best way to do it though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+KimP Posted August 10, 2016 Author Share Posted August 10, 2016 A technique I've seen with researchers, aquaculture facilities and fish wholesalers is to "soft plumb" tanks for easy drainage and removal. The tanks are set up on a rack with a trough or a drip pan on the back end or underneath. A supply line runs above them and each location for a tank has a valve that feeds the tank from above but is not attached to the tank. The tank may be a molded polycarbonate that has a spillway molded in or valve and stand pipe feeding to a trough or drian pan to channel water to a central filter. This type of setup lets each tank be very quickly removed for cleaning or research or replaced with a clean, sterile tank if needed since there's no plumbing or equipment to disconnect or remove. For your project is seems something similar would work. You have room to set a tray your sump which would help with temperature and access (keep your four boys from messing with them ). The tray could be a tubberware container or something custom to hold your jars. You could tap off your manifold with airline tubing and valve to each jar. Then have a very slow drip you could turn off during the larval stage. Since they are mildly photo phobic you could paint the tray black or have it made with black plastic so the babies tend to stay at the bottom (although you probably won't mind some escaping into your system. ) It's taken me a few times reading through to understand what you're describing. Would I be putting the jars in the sump, plumbing a way to run water into them, then the water would just overflow over the top of the jars into the tank? If that's what you're describing, it sounds really interesting! I wonder if they'd just all crawl out though? I wonder if I could use something over the top that water could get through but not the berghia? Hmm. And figuring out how to rig up the plumbing. I do have an open spot on my manifold. Thanks for the idea!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post +KimP Posted August 13, 2016 Author Popular Post Share Posted August 13, 2016 Finally had some spare minutes tonight to check out the jars. I kept trying to swirl jar#1 and squirt the inside with the pipette and do all these things to try and get some berghia into the pipette, because I wasn't finding anything in the water I was pulling out. I started thinking maybe they all died or maybe I accidently got an amphipod in there. Eventually I just picked up the jar and held it up to the light with my bare eyes and couldn't believe it when the inside of the jar was covered in berghia about a quarter of an inch long!!!!! Smaller sizes also, but I was missing them because they're big enough to hold on to the glass tightly, crawl all over not just sit on the bottom, and I assumed they were still tiny. Boy, times have changed when the big excitement on a Fri night consists of slugs and a microscope I'm pretty happy with these pictures. I pulled out 2, one larger and one of the smaller babies. These are of the smaller one. You can hopefully tell it's just getting it's cerata: The big one was too large to really see under the microscope but here's a neat shot of its cerata full of aiptasia bits. It looks exactly like the adults in proportion now, just smaller. And here's the big one on the microscope slide for scale. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 You might have to change your screenname to KimB, for "berghias". That's a really cool side project you have going in our fun little reefing hobby. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemoon Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Wow! Awesome pictures Kim!....KimB! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOceanTraveler Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 I am aptly following this. Thanks so much for the details and photos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+KimP Posted August 13, 2016 Author Share Posted August 13, 2016 You might have to change your screenname to KimB, for "berghias". That's a really cool side project you have going in our fun little reefing hobby. Wow! Awesome pictures Kim!....KimB! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I am aptly following this. Thanks so much for the details and photos.Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Great pictures! Now if you could get a close up video of one of the babies Berghia eating a baby aiptasia! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+KimP Posted August 23, 2016 Author Share Posted August 23, 2016 Things are still going along as usual. I think the dark cycles really help to cause the aiptasia to send off little buds, because after a couple of days with ambient light, I'll find several tiny ones on the glass and sand. So if you have aiptasia, maybe don't do this! Yesterday I discovered 2 adults had gotten into the little tiny filter I had in the tank. Not sure how they managed to get up in there because there's foam and some carbon to get past, but maybe they crawled up along side of it. Bummer. So I'm back to an air pump and airline on the adult tank (3g). Better to just keep things simple. I tried to get a picture of what's going on in this jar. If you can tell, there's a tiny aiptasia holding onto the bottom of the jar. Can you see all the little dots concentrated around it? Those are the baby berghia! Plus some egg shells. I thought that was kind of cool. I put a faint red circle around it. Yesterday was a big day for the first offspring! I only pulled out the biggest 4 to move over and see how they do. I'm surprised by how fast they are growing. It's only been 5 or 6 weeks. New generation of berghia in the 3g! I can see the juveniles in Jar1 really easily, and in Jar2 with a little bit of looking, and even in Jar3 I can easily spot where to put the loupe and see them. I set up Jar4 with a whole bunch of new egg swirls yesterday. The adults had gone on an eating frenzy and cleared every last spec of aiptasia about a week ago and then layed a bunch of eggs. I wonder why they had a lull, where they were only munching the tops off? I wonder if it's just a natural cycle they do, or if the water quality had slipped a bit. I did have some trouble keeping up with topping it off but any swings were minor, like from 35 to 36 or 37 at the most. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SChrisEV Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 They look hungry, I have aptasia to feed them. Great job on his Kim! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOceanTraveler Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 If you need a rock with a bunch of little aptasia on it I can bring one to C4. I have one that all of the sudden just exploded with Aptasia. I am thinking laser. Not decided yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+KimP Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 If you need a rock with a bunch of little aptasia on it I can bring one to C4. I have one that all of the sudden just exploded with Aptasia. I am thinking laser. Not decided yet.Yes that would be great! If it's easy to remove I'll certainly take it. I can bring a clean rock from my sump to trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOceanTraveler Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 No need to trade I have plenty of rock Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+KimP Posted August 26, 2016 Author Share Posted August 26, 2016 Another one going down 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOceanTraveler Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 I ended up not being able to go. Stomach flu hit the household. If I'm headed south for anything I'll let you know. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 If it weren't for this breeding thread I'd be getting everybody together to have an intervention with you after your comment "I've been having some luck getting the aiptasia to throw off mini aiptasia. Pretty happy about that." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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