jestep Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Just saw this for the first time today. A bit long but definitely worth watching. Didn't realize it was getting this bad. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8B1lZp0ULM#t=926 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon Reefer Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Hey business is business in this country. I support my LFS as much as I can afford too. In the beginning of the hobby we support them almost entirely cause we do not know enough about products to buy cheaper on line and we depend on the LFS. After we catch on a bit the LFS had better have built some loyalty or they loose us entirely. Pass this it up to the LFS to find ways to purchase as cheaply as online vendors. There are such things as purchasing consortiums where two or more independent organizations join together as buying groups to gain purchasing power. Its done all the time, but it is up to the LFS's to organize this into their marketing strategies ias well as other unique ideas if they want to compete. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 The need for LFS will never go away for the uneducated first tier of hobbyists. I sincerely doubt that they make a bulk of their money from people like the ARC crowd anyway. They (the LFS) will never be able to compete for the high acumen hobbyists in anything but specific areas (impulse buys, frozen foods, emergency/immediate needs, and some livestock). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenver Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 my 2 cents, to complain about a business model that's old and cannot compete with online retailers is honestly absurd, all businesses have to adapt and change, if he's getting a raw deal from manufacturers and re-sellers, then stop pushing their product, only use the one's that let you compete, if there is a big discrepancy that means the mfgs or re-sellers have to big of a margin and they do not know what they're doing also. (There are a bunch of changes he could do, start selling also on the internet dry goods and equipment at lower margin but focus on volume, lure people into the stores with those prices and start pushing a higher end solution and/or upsell, even more could be done...) I give you the perfect example of an LFS that's doing good, Fish Gallery, you see their store is made to lure new people into buying equipment not necessarily getting them into the hobby, for companies, hotels, etc to buy a new tank for their lobby and sell a maintenance contract. We're really not their target audience, But that's why they're growing, Houston, Dallas and now the Austin store, you can have a successful LFS, but you need in your business plan to define what your target audience is and how to market to them, specialized stores that sell coral and high end fish is another one, their target is more of where we are, but since the volume is not there, a higher margin has to make up for it. I could keep writing all day, but I will stop for now. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wryknow Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 I think that he has a very valid point about the LFS getting the shaft from people taking free advice and then buying equipment elsewhere. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth too. Honestly though, it's not much different then what's happening to Best Buy (aka Amazon's showroom) all across the country. It's tough to squeeze a profit margin competeing against low cost retailers like PETCO and PETSMART and discount online dealers when you have to pay overhead and salaries. That's what the free market is all about though. If the business model is of value to the consumers then they will make a profit, if not, they go out of business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 I just had a long conversation with one of our very own LFS owners sometime last week about this very issue. Yes, we are in a free market and those that want to survive should model their businesses differently. I believe that wholeheartedly. The point that burns me the most is with those that go in for advice and purchase elsewhere. Then take it one step further and go back for support like the speaker illustrated with the led lights and mounting example he gave. I agree with him, that's stealing to me too. If anybody takes the time to do work for me or impart their expertise, I personally feel like they deserve my business, as the customer support is part of the product they sell. This may be just my opinion, but they earned it and deserve it. To buy elsewhere after taking all their advice and time is just wrong to me, even if it is more expensive at the LFS. I understand we're not all built the same but I just couldn't live with it if I did that, especially after getting to know most of the owners personally. Sent via Tapatalk 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenver Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 But it was his decision to help him after her purchased the product elsewhere, when they come in and ask questions that's one thing, but when he shows up with the product he bought somewhere else and asks question he should referred back to where he bought it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Which shows he's just a good guy... Sent via Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenver Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Then why is he complaining? He's a good guy, not running a business Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenver Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 There is a rule, do not take advantage of people, and do not let people take advantage of you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makena95GT Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 You can either be a super awesome person thats super nice and helpful all around and always get walked on.. or you can run a business. Just the way the cpokie crumbles I guess. Ive gotten the privilege of watching my dad build a security company from the ground up. Hes completely blown away the competition with customer service and decimated them. Even big companies. He wont help anyone out unless they are paying him. Not even advice ot running a quick plate number or BG search. Hes all about running his business and getting paid. Thats how its grown to cover three major Texas cities and more than half of the marinas at Lake Travis. Gotta be a tough competitos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon Reefer Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 With "Brick and Mortar" it is tough to compete against internet sales period. No matter what you pedal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jestep Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 I think there's a some disconnect with how quickly the environment has changed, even in the past 2 years. We say adapt but what exactly does it mean when you're trying to compete against someone who not only sells products for less than your buying price, but they can take a 10 or 20% loss on top of that indefinitely, just to prevent customers from shopping at your business. They've also demanded the supplier lower their buying prices by 5 - 10% each subsequent year, indefinitely. There's no amount of cooperation that's going to get normal businesses this sort of buying terms, and might even be considered collusion depending on how the business owners get together. Fish stores are a narrow example of this and I think his ranting can be applied to almost any current retail and service industry be it an ace hardware, food trailer, or a private CPA. We could probably have this same discussion 30 years ago when Walmart was really in its growth age. Small business were starting to feel the pressure of the "value" model and I can guarantee people were suggesting these stores to adapt. The outcome has been basically the gutting of rural american businesses. Not even regarding any other online business, amazon is like round 2 on steroids and they're now opening their first retail store. It's hard to see this so much in Austin because we have such a positive local business attitude, but get into rural areas, especially in sparsely populated plains states, and these towns are a completely different story. Part of the problem that I see is that we as consumers no longer understand what value is. We've been warped by the walmarts, mcdonalds, and amazons, into believing that price and delivery speed is the only remaining value. We get our crap from them for cheap and they give their employees crappy wages and a terrible working environment. It's economics, but it sucks. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuxx Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Every business changes over time. A lot of the industries I've been involved in see huge changes every few years. Just have to "adapt or die". I've been burned by a few LFS in town for various reasons, but still love going by Aquadome. I really enjoy seeing what they have and talking with Hunter and Gary. We haven't bought livestock for years anywhere but online, but we still have a membership with Aquadome. Will pick up foods and supplements there often. Can I get them cheaper, sure, but it's convenient and I like supporting local businesses. Online can't offer some of the same experiences you get from a LFS as well, and there will always be people that just prefer to see something and go right home with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnKoto Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Being a newcomer to the hobby, I guess I am the one everyone is talking about on this thread targeted by the LFS. And it's true! Aquadome is a couple blocks away and I have been hanging out there like a second home over the last month. I do a lot of research online, but nothing beats help from those that have experience that they are willing to impart it on beginners. It's one of the reasons I joined ARC. So, I ask Hunter all sorts of questions and then I buy merchandise from them. There is something else that I haven't seen voiced here: On three occasions now Aquadome has not had the product I was looking for, so I had them order it for me. One time it was a Tunze 6025 that I could have paid $64, but Aquadome ordered it and sold it to me for $70. Another, time he got me a Yasha Goby and they sold it to me for $5 cheaper than I could find it anywhere online. I had to wait a couple days, but I will take $6 hits and a couple extra days for the rest of my time in the hobby to support a place where I can go whenever I want and talk about it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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