FarmerTy Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Normally I would keep all topics concerning my tank build in my actual tank build but I thought discussion of this would be useful to other systems and also, I fear the "automatic ignore" tendency of my build thread. Oh jeez, there's JeeperTy's build thread again, I'm just going to skip right over that because it's usually nonsense! So, to the question at hand. I am in the process of installing an exhaust fan to vent hot air and humidity from my 210-gallon tank to the outside. I have decided on a Panasonic exhaust fan (exact model to be determined as they have a million types). I was wondering what people think about how I should control its operation. Should I have it controlled via tank temperature or via humidity (humidstat hooked up to my breakout box to my Apex)? I even thought of temperature in the enclosed canopy but adding another module to the Apex and another temp probe has me moving away from that idea. Thoughts? Engineers, break out your whiteboards! (That's for you Jim ) -Ty 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo662 Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Before I'd sold my house I had planned on getting a humidity controlled vent to put in my fish room due to the high humidity in the house. I guess you need to really determine what you want to control. Do the panasonic vent have any type of temp contol built in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 They do have models with built in humidity sensors but at those prices, it's almost cheaper for me to install my own humidistat and wire it to the breakout box. An extra bonus of doing it that way is Apex control and monitoring as well. For me, it's 90% heat is what I'm concerned about. It may be the driving force in this particular scenario. What's interesting is they do have a continously run model that can run at a preset cfm (30, 40, 50, 60, or 70 cfm) and then when the "switch" is activated, it will run at 80cfm. Once the switch is deactivated, it will default back to the preset continously run setting. I was thinking of getting this model and have it run at 30cfm continuously and then when the lights come on, activate the "switch" to run at 80cfm. This would take care of any humidity issues with the continous run at 30cfm and ramp up to 80cfm to take care of any heat related issues with the lights. The only problem is I'm not an electrician so I don't know how their "switch" is activated and if I can activate that via the Apex or not. I'd imagine I could use the breakout box but it just depends on how it's wired in the fan. I looked at the electrical wiring diagram for the fan but I don't have enough background knowledge with electrical components to understand if it'll work with my application. Sent via Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolt Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 I think your off/low/high idea seems pretty solid. As long as you can figure out how to switch the modes you can decide on the best control scheme over time. You may find you want to control on both heat and humidity someday, who knows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 amazon link ($55.98 shipped w/ prime) I'd be more inclined to go with an outside of apex option. As of now, there is no way to measure humidity in line with the apex (that i'm aware of). So you'd have to be introducing some of your own electrical logic to get that to work right.i.e., apex says temp is too high OR humidity is too high >then> turn on fan. In reality, if your temp gets too high, your evap fan is gonna kick on or you're gonna shut down your halides. I think apex integration is a feature you'd never use. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 Genius! Thank you sir for the link. Sent via Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 OK, so i read a bit more. You need an apex switch box to make this work. You wire in the humidistat to your switch box, and when it kicks on, THEN you can have your apex turn on your fan. If you have the switch box already, this would be the less expensive and more controllable option. I read about it here: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1933966link ($25.09 shipped w/prime) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolt Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 I don't have Apex, but I assume with Victoly's second option you could log the fan activity using your Apex? (I like to be able to chart things (being an engineer ...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 Yeah, that's the humidistat I thought about hooking up to my breakout box. I like the idea of having both thr temperature and humidity level control though through the item you linked. I don't really need control through the Apex but I thought it would be nice to have. Sent via Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 You would just be able to log on/off, but it wouldnt give you a running total of humidity, which would be cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 For us nerds, logging humidity would be really cool but I don't need that. Just knowing how often it is triggered by humidity levels above X would be interesting just by itself. On a side note, I never really how much I over use the word "just"... sometimes using it twice in the same sentence. I wonder if I talk that way too? Sent via Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Ty - Just Just it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolt Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 For us nerds, logging humidity would be really cool but I don't need that. Just knowing how often it is triggered by humidity levels above X would be interesting just by itself. On a side note, I never really how much I over use the word "just"... sometimes using it twice in the same sentence. I wonder if I talk that way too? Sent via Tapatalk What you really need to do is add a breakout box with 4 temp probes. one in the sump, one in the DT, one in the canopy, one ambient in the room. Then route one outside. So 5 total. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 I can do that with a breakout box? Or do you mean another module? I thought breakout boxes only relay open/closed signals? Sent via Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Getting my terminology mixed up. I meant another probe module. You could get a PM1 for additional pH, a PM2 for salinity, and then a PM3 for DO. Each PM box has an extra temp probe. That should get you to 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 Our very own APEX unofficial local representative mixing up modules and breakout boxes! The horror! Can I borrow like uhh, $400 for all those extra modules and temp probes? Sent via Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 1300 if you want all the rest of the probes. The DO probe is a doozy at 700. A much more reasonable $384 if you skip all the rest of the probes (salinity, ORP, DO) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolt Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Borrowing a page from Victoly's book: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 I feel a Rube Goldberg moment of inspiration coming... Sent via Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reburn Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 My 2 cents is a standalone system. Rh probes are notoriously inaccurate and have a tendency to drift. Here is a question that hasn't been asked from the hundreds of IQ points on this thread. Where is your exhaust fan going to be pulling air from? Are you just going to rely on the gaps in your canopy? Are you going to cut vents in your canopy? Are you going to cut vents in the bottom of your stand and try to seal the upper parts of your canopy? Have you thought about just adding a dehumidifier to the room and just using your vent fan to extract heat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reburn Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Forgive me for not re-reading the entire thread. What about the additional amperage draw on the apex? Would you need a relay to control line voltage to the vent? A relay seems prone to failure, a spike in amperage tripping off your apex seems catastrophic. What about just having the vent control heat and adding a standalone dehumidifier to the room? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 I looked into dehumidifiers for the room that the tank is located in but the systems they make nowadays have terrible longevity issues. I don't know if they switched manufacturing parts but it was enough to scare me off of using one. Plus, it would use even more electricity than the vent fan and it definitely wouldn't pass the wife test... it'd be denied in the blink of an eye for aestethic reasons... heck, I barely made the cut myself! I figure that now I am able to mostly isolate the humidity and heat to the confines of the stand and canopy, let's use that advantage and remove it from that area instead or trying to pull moisture from the whole house. I've always had success blowing air out of the canopy/stand as there are natural gaps everywhere. It will give that perfect amount of negative pressure to pull cool air conditioned air into the stand/canopy to replace the hot/humid air. You give me way too much credit on my building skills if you think that sucker is anywhere close to being airtight. Lol! I'm not as worried about the inaccuracies of the relative humidity probes as I am just aiming for a ballpark number... within 20% works for this application and that's a pretty large margin of error. Knowing that the duostat has the more important temperature probe and uses that as a driving force of control would put me at ease as temperature would probably drive it 90% of the time. Thanks for bringing up the points Reburn. I always enjoy other thoughts and viewpoints. Gives me a good doublecheck on my wild ideas! Sent via Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reburn Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 I do agree with your wife on aesthetics. I'm a spoiled brat and my AC has dehumidify adjustments on it so I haven't ever looked into a stand alone unit. I'm my defense I did say TRY to make it air tight...... I think your on the right track. Do you know anyone that has done something like this before? I think 30cfm is a tad low but I do like the idea of ramping up to 80cfm. I do have a tendency to over think and over engineer things so 30cfm is probably plenty. Ever heard the saying don't use a hammer to kill a fly....... That's me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 RichardL has a vent fan, but his is just timer based and not humidity based. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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