Robb in Austin Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Ok all you SPS folks, need some help. I grabbed a nice mini colony of green apple birdsnest from RichardL a while ago and it has been doing good up until recently. I noticed what I believe is STN going on. I've also got a regular pink birdnest, a large piece of orange monti cap, and a recovering jedi mind trick that are all doing fine. I just did a good water change but my suspicion is probably some low Alk (my 75 ran low so I assume this one is), high PO4 (feed heavily), and perhaps low-ish lighting (running LEDs and am slowly ramping them up. Currently at 35% for about 5-6 hrs per day with a ramp up/down). I don't have any fresh test kits so I can't give any numbers. Thoughts? Should I frag off the tips that still look good? Ty; want to bring your test kits over and test my water?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo662 Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 What lights do you have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Got any pics Robb? If it is STN at the base, I'd get some superglue gel and try to glue above the STN line to keep it from continuing. Typically when I see STN at the bottom of colonies, it has to do with low alkalinity. I don't do in-your-home water testing services (unless you buy a house from me ) but if you swing on by with some water, I'd be happy to test for you bud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard L Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Did you keep your receipt? It may be covered under my extended warranty program. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb in Austin Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 ReefBreeders Photon series Pics are hard to get due to the blue in the LEDs but I can try. I noticed some bleaching and loose flesh the other day during my water change. I think at this point its probably best to frag it as quite a bit is loosing the battle. Unfortunately, I'm going to be left with a bunch of baby frags. ;( The receipt is long gone. ;( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 I just had an unexplained tissue necrosis issue on a birdsnest also ... Acros slimed up real good as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jestep Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Birdsnests have always been extremely touch and go in my experience. If the parameters don't match very closely, they typically do very poorly. There was an article on advanced aquarist a while back and they concluded that seriatopora's are the worst of any common SPS at adapting to new environments and can take more than a year to adapt to new conditions. Obviously can't say for certain in any particular situation, but by the fact I've had no problem with some difficult acros and can't keep these guys thriving long term, I definitely believe it. My other complaint with them is that when they go, it's often extremely fast, hours instead of days or weeks with most other SPS. Edit, found the link: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/birdsnest-corals-do-not-adapt-well-to-different-conditions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb in Austin Posted September 3, 2014 Author Share Posted September 3, 2014 Salinity is good at least! It was doing great for a month and just this last week or so; all downhill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAM Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Salinity is good at least! It was doing great for a month and just this last week or so; all downhill. Birdsnest in my experience can be temperamental at time but once established, you can throw them in the sand and cover them with Z/P with barely any light and still live. It really doesn't like the alk swing or high nitrate so be sure to test for that. Luckily mine tolerated and survived through all of that including a spike of phosphate that went up to .60 at one point. The base of my birdsnest are pretty much gone but its still growing like weed at the top. I say don't give up on the one you got. You can always wait it out or just frag off the good piece. I can always hook you up on 5 different birdsnest free of charge to help you recover from this incident. Let me know. [emoji4] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb in Austin Posted September 3, 2014 Author Share Posted September 3, 2014 Thanks for the generous offer Sam! Ty stopped by and got some water to test for me since he was in the area. I forgot, I did bring in a piece of forest fire digi the other day and didn't dip it for some reason. I wonder if it brought something in with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard L Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Its funny Jestep I've heard that same thing from many people - birdsnest are the only sps they have a problem growing in their tank. My experience has strangely been the exact opposite. I can grow any flavor of birdsnest into massive colonies easily. But acros....forget about it, one failure after another. I've tried maricultured, aquacultured, frags, small colonies and medium colonies. I start to gain some momentum and then boom, RTN! We should create a database of equipment, salt, rock, skimmers, dosing, typical water parameters and include livestock that thrives and livestock that fizzles and see if there are any commonalities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard L Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Robb - I found a copy of your receipt in my dead files under B because your name has two b's. Fortunately, you did purchase the extended warranty. You just need to prove you're not responsible for the necrosis. Just check the box "Act of God" on the replacement form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Do "Acts of God" include screaming high nutrient levels? Here are the test results: PO4 - >.6 ppm (it was higher than my hanna phosporus could read!) NO3 - approx 70 ppm (API) Alk - 6.8 dKh (low in my book but doable; hanna alk meter) Ca - 425 ppm (within range; Red Sea) Mg - 1,360 ppm (higher than NSW but still good; Red Sea) Sal - 1.026 (good; Milwaukee digital seawater refractometer) Sent via Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 I personally aim for 8.0 dKh for my tank so I'm not skirting the low end for alkalinity. The phosphate and nitrate levels are crazy high! That's the first time I've ever seen blue tinted water when adding my phosphate reagent! I'd start with a couple good water changes to dilute your nitrates. Keep in mind that it is purely volume-based regarding removal. Change 80% of the water, reduce the nitrates by 80%. As for phosphate, I'd wait until I got the nitrate levels down to something reasonable (<5 ppm) and then test your phosphates at that time. From there, you can start using GFO or lanthanum chloride to reduce the phosphate levels. For the long-term, I'd implement a GFO regiment for phosphate until levels are kept at a controllable level (<0.1 ppm). For nitrates, I'd look into biopellets and a biopellet reactor. It will take 3-4 weeks to be fully online but at least that will help you fight the super high nitrates. Hope that helps bud. Go buy some test kits so you can monitor for sure! Sent via Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb in Austin Posted September 3, 2014 Author Share Posted September 3, 2014 And that is with a recent 30g water change! Wonder if I'm still going through a cycle. Or maybe the fish additions recently drove the nitrates up that high. I knew the PO4 was going to be high. I need to get my GFO back on line. On the plus side, my LPS, zoas, and rics should start taking off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb in Austin Posted September 3, 2014 Author Share Posted September 3, 2014 Oh yeah, thanks Ty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 I bet it's the fish additions! Once I added to my livestock in the new tank, my nitrates shot up to 50-60 ppm too! I had GFO online, otherwise, who knows what that would have shot up to! Sent via Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard L Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Hmmm, I don't think the warranty covers "Acts of Robb" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reburn Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Ok. So this brings me to a question. Yes his N03 and P04 are way out of range. But could doing a 80% water change and causing a massive swing cause his other coral to STN as well? Or do you think it's best just to match alk,ca and Mg on the WC water and run the N03 and P04 levels down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 From a purely SPS tank point-of-view, I would weight the options but would more than likely slowly lower the concentration. But for Robb's tank which has more softies and LPS, I would think it would be the lesser of two evils to bring those high nutrient levels down at a quicker than normal pace. I never intended for him to do an 80% water change... it was purely for example purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon Reefer Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Its funny Jestep I've heard that same thing from many people - birdsnest are the only sps they have a problem growing in their tank. My experience has strangely been the exact opposite. I can grow any flavor of birdsnest into massive colonies easily. But acros....forget about it, one failure after another. I've tried maricultured, aquacultured, frags, small colonies and medium colonies. I start to gain some momentum and then boom, RTN! We should create a database of equipment, salt, rock, skimmers, dosing, typical water parameters and include livestock that thrives and livestock that fizzles and see if there are any commonalities. +1 Most times birdsnest SPS are far more forgiving than Acros. But with those numbers, I am surprised anything but LPS stonies would enjoy their bath water. Do not do a massive water change. Never really a good idea unless thetre are toxins present. Start adjusting Alk up and deal with the high NO3 and PO4. I'd crank up the skimmer and start some carbon dosing VIA one ogf the acceptable forms: IE Vodka, Vinager etc... Start small and do't make radical changes. If you carbon dose watch for signs of pH change (lower) or signs of bacterial bloom (add airstone). Neither should be a problem if you start small. This will lower NO3 faster than PO4. When NO3 is where you want it and you slow or stop carbon dosing you may still need to run some GFO for further reduction of PO4. Here is a link to my preferred method for Vinager dosing from Reefkeeping.. http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/116-vinegar-dosing-methodology-for-the-marine-aquarium Good luck and go easy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb in Austin Posted September 3, 2014 Author Share Posted September 3, 2014 Started making water... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 quit pooping in your tank robb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb in Austin Posted September 3, 2014 Author Share Posted September 3, 2014 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rjohn Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 I got to ask what "STN" stands for. From the preceding posts I think N is for Necrosis (worst country song title EVER!) but what about the S and T? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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