Tuning a P48 LED unit

[Manny]

Hey all. So as some of you who have followed my build thread know that I recently upgraded to LEDs about two months ago. All in all I am impressed with the build quality of the unit and the ease of customization. I enjoy the color spectrum it provides as well as the shimmer.

I have, however, not been able to perfect my settings on the unit. One good thing I did with the unit was start the lights on a very low intensity. I avoided bleaching any of my coral. I have been having an issue with some of my sps. I would like to avoid the topic of LEDs being able to/not being able to grow sps. I have seen too many successful build threads to accept as fact that they won't grow sps. Now that that's out the window let me begin with my LED experience so far.

Day 1 I set a custom lighting schedule very similar to the recommended one from reef breeders themselves on their website. I did tune down the settings a little bit. Unlike what others have done and increased intensity by 10% every week, I kept mine steady for 4 weeks. I ran the blues at 30% max and whites at 25% max with a natural daylight cycle that included the ramping up and down of the lights. Then I doubled the blues on every 30 minute setting. I waited 3 weeks and did the same to the whites. I avoided bleaching anything. As far as lighting goes, I think I have done alright with the acclimation process. In fact I believe I wasnt providing enough light at first. Well slowly but surely my sps frags started going downhill. Not all of them and not all at once but I would say half of them did actually start going downhill. They started to STN. I am baffled as to what is going on to cause this. My parameters are in line and I have had Jonathan test as well to get a second opinion. I did have the calcium fluctuate a tad bit during a period of about two weeks. It wasn't much and I had to dose some calcium but then I got them back in line and went back to dosing kalk. Yet my frags still, one by one, started to STN. It is interesting to note that my tricolor valida is doing awesome while a simple monti cap got STN. I also have 3 different species of birds nest and two of them look amazing while one of the colonies completely took a nose dive. There are a few factors that I think might be playing a role here. First I did have a Kenya tree and Xenia get into it and possibly release some toxins. The Xenia just about died but has since then recovered. I took this opportunity to get rid of the Kenya tree. The very next day any sps close by did have STN. My green cap was one that was affected, at least I believe they were affected. The cap is not fully healed but it is still growing so I am assuming that it will make it. I did have a northern lights acro on the opposite end of the tank who also got STN the next day and has since died. But the frags in the middle of the tank seem unharmed. So that is why I have doubts as to if it was chemical warfare or not. I have since then changed out my carbon. Second factor was a flame angel that started to eat the polyps on the sps. He was confirmed to not eat coral but when I introduced some new sps into the tank, he went crazy. The flame angel is gone. The third factor was my flame hawkfish was constantly perched on top of them. Usually not a big deal but since these guys were already struggling the hawkfish was just stressing them out more. Hawkish is gone. I corrected the issues but I have yet to see the coral color up nicely and even just yesterday a red planet acro started to STN after a month of healthy living in the tank. I Dont know what is causing my sps to start to STN on me. I would like to believe it was one of the above factors but I still have some starting to diminish out of nowhere.

This leads me to believe that lighting might be an issue. I started thinking: the good thing about LEDs is that you can emulate the sunrise and sunset through the day down to 30 minute intervals. After all, isn't the best thing to do is emulate the corals natural environment? Well then I realized that it would take more than just changing light intensity every 30 minutes to accurately mimic the sun. I also thought about the success of MH and T5 and the fact that you don't have control over the intensity of the lights or the ability to have them change spectrums throughout the day. You can set a timer to have them come on and then have them go off at a certain time of the day and that is it. So I asked myself, "could this controllability we are given with LEDs be the reason so many people have failed in keeping sps?" Have these manufacturers put too much control in our hands? Are the coral every going to acclimate if we change the spectrum every 30 minutes? I don't have an answer for that. But seeing the success of other lighting units (T5 and MH) that give you essentially only the ability to turn the unit on or off, I have decided to redo my lighting schedule in hopes of better results. I will give my aquarium an hour of 20% blue (420nm & 470nm) lights in order to emulate a sun rise and an hour at the end with the same intensity with 9 hours of constant, non-fluctuating light at a certain intensity between the sunrise/set. I will probably go with 50% whites and 60% blues since that is what I peak at anyways. I am hoping that this consistent lighting schedule can help things start to look better and stop the STN.

What are your fellow reefers thoughts on this? Do any of you keep sps successfully with LEDs set on a ramping up/down schedule? Do you guys believe there is an underlying issue I have yet to discover or do you guys believe the havoc is a combination of all the listed factors above? Do any of you think its solely the lights not being tuned correctly? I do feel that even though the unit supposedly provides a "full spectrum" coverage for the coral, I dont believe they are getting it. The lights are too direct and even with having removed the 90 degree optics, I am concerned the colors still are not blending as they should and in turn, not all coral are getting the red that they need. I am open to any advice you guys might have.

Lastly I would like to apologize for any major grammar errors above. I typed this all on an old cell phone that lags significantly while typing, making you spell crazy sentences. I am not proof reading this before I post. Thanks all.

[Manny]

I did forget to mention a heavy use of GFO. I have no traceable phosphates in my tank. I use a Hanna Checker to test phosphates and I get a reading of 0.0 ppm every time I test. Could it be that I am removing too much PO4?

[Manny]

Parameters are:

Salinity:1.025

Calcium:435ppm

Alkalinity: 8.4dKH

Magnesium:1280ppm

PO4: 0.0ppm

Nitrates: 10ppm (WC this weekend)

Temp: 80F constant

[Bpb]

Following.

[FarmerTy]

Just a quick read but have Bpb double check your numbers before doing anything. After all my years of reefing, that still got me and I could have saved a bunch of coral just by having someone check my numbers. The ones I thought for sure didn't need to be double checked were the ones that were the culprits.

Secondly, I doubt it's the lights but some experimentation wouldn't hurt. Typically if it's not enough light, you'll get darker corals and browning but not instant STN and RTN. Same thing for the most part with too much light... you'd get a bleaching event but if the coral was healthy, it would survive it and regain it's color.

I don't know much of your regiment but just try to think back of any other major changes besides the lights. My guess would be too much GFO as I have had that strip the tank of phosphates before and cause STN. My other guess would be unstable alk. Are you hand dosing? Using 2-part? CaRX? Perhaps all of your corals got really happy and started growing and caused an alk drop? A simple drop of more than 1.5 dKh can cause RTN/STN in my tank easily... even when healthy.

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[Manny]

Ty, I have had Bpb test my water as well just to get a second opinion. Calcium was a little low (380) but nothing major. This was due to different methods of cleaning the test tubes. I adapted his method and am getting consistent results now. My alkalinity has been consistent this whole time at 8.4. I don't carbon dose. I had a huge cyano problem a when I started my GFO use. I went with half the recommended dosage for a month and then went full dosage the next month. I use kalk in my ATO.

[FarmerTy]

Were your SPS colorful before dying on you? Or were they mainly brown? Were polyps extended?

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[Manny]

Two of the pieces did bleach at first but that was with my T5s. They turned brown before I switched lights. They started getting polyps extension as well but never fully colored up. The Monti caps did have polyp extension and were fully colored up. I did have two Cali torts come in with good coloration and semi good polyp extension. Those two slowly had less and less polyps and finally started to STN. So to answer your question yes and no. Some had color some were brown. Some had good polyp extension others were recovering and barely releasing polyps.

[FarmerTy]

A few more questions, how do you use the kalk in your ATO? Are you decanting off the top after you mix and it settles? Are you pouring kalk straight into your ATO container?

Also, see if you can get a 3rd opinion on the salinity, just for kicks. I'm more suspicious of salinity these days then what I used to be.

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[FarmerTy]

Oh, one last thing, have you dipped your corals? If so, in what?

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[Manny]

I do dip most of my coral and right now I am away from home so I don't k ow the exact name of the stuff but I will post it when I get home. I got the stuff from Nikos and he said he used that same stuff. I do however relax a bit on the dips if I get my stuff from Bpb, which is a large amount of what I have. I have seen his tank many times and know how much dedication he has to the hobby so I don't worry too much about getting a pest from him. So I would say about half of the stuff I get from him gets dipped. Is this bad practice?

[Manny]

As far as salinity goes, he and i use a refractometer and I calibrate mine before every use. I mix Kalk in a 5 gallon bucket a day before I know I will need it. I am using 6 tsp per 5 gallons. I don't need a fully saturated dose just yet. My ATO is another 5 gallon bucket with a lid and airline tubing going through a drilled hole in the lid. A day after mixing the solution I will pour the kalk mix into my ATO and try to avoid the white settled part at the bottom of the bucket. I would say I switch out the ATO bucket for a clean one every two weeks. I refill every week. And I use BRS kalkwasser.

[Wade]

Manny, Here's some updated pics of the coral I got at a swap back on March 22nd of this year. The first picture were taken on April 28th and the second set today. They've been under my P48 since I got them. The bird's nest and I think the pocillopora were fragged under MH according to the seller. After 4 weeks of very slowly acclimating (starting low and raising) them to their current position in the tank they've done quite well. I started dosing Kalk after I got them and you can see the results. I wish my cell phone took better pictures without capturing all the blue. I need to make it easier on myself, but currently i use one-gallon water jugs and mix at night or a day ahead of time and then just drip from there. I've got the air-tube glued to the top of a 1/2" PVC coupling which fits through the top of the jug. This keeps the tubing about an inch off the bottom to stay out of the sludge. I like your idea better and will have to move to something like that when I go on vacation. As far as you question of coloring up goes, I picked up an acro which I believe to be a bonsai, but it's currently brown with cream colored polyps. It's growing well like the others and encrusting the rock work, but not coloring up yet. I believe it will eventually as there's no reason to think it won't given that the others are keeping their color and growing nicely. As far as tuning goes, I've not changed anything on the fixture. I use the ramping spreadsheet I sent you and max out at 70% blue and 55% white.

[Manny]

Well I sure am glad to see things are working for you. I do really believe it is not the lights but I have no clue what it can be then. I am trying a light cycle more similar to T-5s for now and did take my GFO offline. After everything colors back up I will probably go back to the ramping light schedule. Maybe it truly was a mixture of the above factors of the flame angel eating the polyps and the hawkfish perching on already stressed frags.

[Bpb]

I would definitely keep the gfo offline since you're reading 0.00 ppm phosphates on your Hana checker, AND have no algae or cyano to speak of. At this point there's no reason to run it and it'll cause more trouble than it will help. I'd only use it sparingly now as you watch algae growth increase and or watch detectible levels of organic phosphate rise.

[FarmerTy]

If you are noticing no algal growth and are truly reading 0.0 ppm on the hanna meter, I'd take your GFO offline like Bpb advises.

Your salinity sounds like it should be spot on after reading your regiment for testing. Also your kalkwasser additions seem to be fine and doesn't seem like you're doing anything that would cause the STN.

Just let everything go into cruise control right now and not add anything for a bit. We're aiming for stability from this point. If you can keep all your parameters stable for a couple of months, then I think it's safe to try to start adding a frag here or there of SPS to test it out.

[Manny]

Sounds like sound advice. I have been debating for a few weeks noe as to whether or not I should take GFO offline and have cut it off now. The good news is that the sps that are ok are doing great. All I can think of is that maybe my tank is just too new and going through the new tank syndrome.

[Manny]

Well it made me feel really good to hear mframe say my tank looked great after seeing it. He seems to be on the same page about the tank just being too new and not mature yet. I guess now we wait.

[FarmerTy]

You got an official visit from El Jefe himself? Is that how he officially welcomes new club members now?

[Manny]

Wait what?!?. . . . mFrame is the big boss?

[Dustin Pedretti]

Lol yes

[Manny]

Looks like I had a celebrity in my house and didn't even know it. Good thing I was on good behavior.

[Manny]

Not being able to pinpoint exactly what it was I went ahead and eliminated all the potential factors that could have been causing this. I honestly do not believe it was the lights but I did go back to a schedule more like the one I ran on my T5s. I will give it 3 months on that schedule and let things settle down a bit and then go back to the ramping up and down schedule. I would imagine that the ramping up and down would be more beneficial to the coral being that this is what they are exposed to in the wild. Wade is having success with that same schedule so I cannot say the lights were causing the trouble. I have turned off the GFO, got rid of the hawkfish and flame angel, change out carbon regularly, raising phosphates via heavier feeding, and stopped adding new coral to the tank. I honestly can see better tissue and polyp expansion in my LPS and SPS. I have always heard that patience is key in this hobby so now we wait.

[Manny]

You got an official visit from El Jefe himself? Is that how he officially welcomes new club members now?

Hey there Ty! I have been a member since last year so you better watch the way you throw around the title of new members. I might have to slap you with an anemone tentacle.

[FarmerTy]

I'll come right back with a wet sea cucumber! Been around since 2007 sir... you're "new" to me! I didn't get an el Jefe visit until 2012... I'll give him a little bit of a break since he wasn't El Jefe until around that time anyways... though he did only come to buy some fungia plates from me... sigh... people don't like me... they just want my toys.