Manny's 75G Upgrade

[FarmerTy]

I've tried the spreading my fins to look bigger when threatened but I'll have to add the open mouth too next time around... it seems quite effective.

AEFW is sadly more common than I think most people realize. If you've collected 20 pieces of acros in the last year, I'm sure at least one or two frags had AEFW. I found Bayer to be highly effective against them but the eggs are the issue... as they will survive the Bayer dip. I actually prefer frags unmounted so that there are no possible areas which eggs can come in on the plug or on dead coral at the base of the frag. There are some that will break off the encrusting portion of the frag and dip the coral in Bayer, then reglue on their own "safe plug".

My best preventive for them is a Bayer dip and vigorous shaking of the frag in the solution. Then doing the same in the rinse water. The Bayer only stuns them for the most part so the swishing in the water I feel is key to dislodge them from their coral host.

I then monitor the new frag and also my resident frags/colonies for bite marks. The best time to view the bite marks is actually at night, when the lights are off. Just get a bright light source... I find my LED light on my phone to be the best option, and shine it at your acros and look for little oval bite marks (look like faded spots on the acro skin) about the size of a pinhead and a little larger.

Honestly, if I even see one bite mark anywhere, I'll dip the whole population of acros in the tank for safety. That involves 3 separate dips of the entire population... day 1, day 4, and day 9. Day 1 to knock most of them off, Day 4 to catch any stragglers, and Day 9 to take it to any that may have hatched from any eggs missed. I dip and replace in tank if anybody is curious and don't bother using a QT tank during this procedure though it might be ideal to do.

Hope it helps.

[Manny]

I've tried the spreading my fins to look bigger when threatened but I'll have to add the open mouth too next time around... it seems quite effective.

AEFW is sadly more common than I think most people realize. If you've collected 20 pieces of acros in the last year, I'm sure at least one or two frags had AEFW. I found Bayer to be highly effective against them but the eggs are the issue... as they will survive the Bayer dip. I actually prefer frags unmounted so that there are no possible areas which eggs can come in on the plug or on dead coral at the base of the frag. There are some that will break off the encrusting portion of the frag and dip the coral in Bayer, then reglue on their own "safe plug".

My best preventive for them is a Bayer dip and vigorous shaking of the frag in the solution. Then doing the same in the rinse water. The Bayer only stuns them for the most part so the swishing in the water I feel is key to dislodge them from their coral host.

I then monitor the new frag and also my resident frags/colonies for bite marks. The best time to view the bite marks is actually at night, when the lights are off. Just get a bright light source... I find my LED light on my phone to be the best option, and shine it at your acros and look for little oval bite marks (look like faded spots on the acro skin) about the size of a pinhead and a little larger.

Honestly, if I even see one bite mark anywhere, I'll dip the whole population of acros in the tank for safety. That involves 3 separate dips of the entire population... day 1, day 4, and day 9. Day 1 to knock most of them off, Day 4 to catch any stragglers, and Day 9 to take it to any that may have hatched from any eggs missed. I dip and replace in tank if anybody is curious and don't bother using a QT tank during this procedure though it might be ideal to do.

Hope it helps.

I agree that you can see bite marks better at night. I wake up at 0300 to get ready for work so that is when I take a peak. I dipped them with Bayer and I used an old toothbrush to try and brush off any eggs on the coral and frag plug. I haven't noticed any new bitemarks but I have been paying very close attention to try and catch any new marks. Thanks for the advice Ty.

[nvrEnuf]

Hey Manny,

After a recent minor KH crash due to faulty testing chems I have bought in fully to the red sea system about a month ago.

I am seeing amazing results! All SPS have bounced back (thought I was going to loose at least a couple) except a chalice which was the original tip off to the issue.

I am not running quite thier recommneded levels for fast growth (~10 KH compared to thier suggested 12) but am seeing a faster growth rate than ever before; and colors have intensified without a doubt.

I am also dosing about 1/2 of thier reccomended dose of reef energy when I feed the tank in the evening. Colors have gotten better since starting this about a week ago; and I notice inverts in the sump go crazy when I feed it.

Since I run a turf scrubber and no skimmer I do not run the algea reducer. This is also the reason I am only feeding 1/2 dose of energy A&B, as I suspect thier dosing rate accounts for nutrient loss from a heavily skimmed system. I will probably push this rate up at some point, but other than N and PO I don't exactly run a low nutrient system.

Anyway, I plan to get the color additives around christmas or just after since I am seeing such wonderful results with 2 of thier 3 bottom products.

Hope this helps!

[Manny]

Hey Manny,

After a recent minor KH crash due to faulty testing chems I have bought in fully to the red sea system about a month ago.

I am seeing amazing results! All SPS have bounced back (thought I was going to loose at least a couple) except a chalice which was the original tip off to the issue.

I am not running quite thier recommneded levels for fast growth (~10 KH compared to thier suggested 12) but am seeing a faster growth rate than ever before; and colors have intensified without a doubt.

I am also dosing about 1/2 of thier reccomended dose of reef energy when I feed the tank in the evening. Colors have gotten better since starting this about a week ago; and I notice inverts in the sump go crazy when I feed it.

Since I run a turf scrubber and no skimmer I do not run the algea reducer. This is also the reason I am only feeding 1/2 dose of energy A&B, as I suspect thier dosing rate accounts for nutrient loss from a heavily skimmed system. I will probably push this rate up at some point, but other than N and PO I don't exactly run a low nutrient system.

Anyway, I plan to get the color additives around christmas or just after since I am seeing such wonderful results with 2 of thier 3 bottom products.

Hope this helps!

Hey thanks! This is awesome to hear. I also ordered a ton of their products over the black Friday sale at BRS. I am very excited to start running it. I might have a few questions about it so I hope you don't mind me contacting you about it a bit later.

[Manny]

Wife: so tell me one thing you are grateful for.

Me: only one thing?

Wife: yep. Let's make it easy. Just tell me one.

Me: OK well I am very thankful that my mandarin goby finally started eating frozen food today.

Wife: what?

Me: it is very hard to find a mandarin that is already eating frozen food. So yes, I am grateful it starting eating frozen food.

Wife: you're talking about a fish?

Me: yes ma'am

Wife: you're impossible.

[nvrEnuf]

^ sounds like my house!

I don't think you'll have any problems with the system, it's very straight forward once you get the instructions.

Just pay attention to testing order, and dosing limits. Took me about a week and a half to get KH from 5 to 10.

I keep a readings log spreadsheet on google drive which helps a lot in keeping track of progress; and gives me good info on dosing results.

https://drive.google.com/?authuser=0&dnrt=1#my-drive

Here is a screen shot of the sheet; if you'd like a blank copy PM me a gmail adress...

[Manny]

Hey Manny,

After a recent minor KH crash due to faulty testing chems I have bought in fully to the red sea system about a month ago.

I am seeing amazing results! All SPS have bounced back (thought I was going to loose at least a couple) except a chalice which was the original tip off to the issue.

I am not running quite thier recommneded levels for fast growth (~10 KH compared to thier suggested 12) but am seeing a faster growth rate than ever before; and colors have intensified without a doubt.

I am also dosing about 1/2 of thier reccomended dose of reef energy when I feed the tank in the evening. Colors have gotten better since starting this about a week ago; and I notice inverts in the sump go crazy when I feed it.

Since I run a turf scrubber and no skimmer I do not run the algea reducer. This is also the reason I am only feeding 1/2 dose of energy A&B, as I suspect thier dosing rate accounts for nutrient loss from a heavily skimmed system. I will probably push this rate up at some point, but other than N and PO I don't exactly run a low nutrient system.

Anyway, I plan to get the color additives around christmas or just after since I am seeing such wonderful results with 2 of thier 3 bottom products.

Hope this helps!

As far as research goes on my end towards the reef energy I must admit it has been quite minimal. Not to say I wouldn't research it before using it but havent gotten to research in depth just yet. I have only watched the red sea YouTube channel. I did have a question in mind ever since I first saw the reef energy and you seem to touch up on it just a bit. You mentioned you only run 1/2 the dosage due to running no skimmer. So is this system designed around the concept of losing a lot of its effectiveness due to skimming and can only be made up by heavier dosing? If so wouldn't it be more convenient to go skimmerless while I dose? And do I need to unplug the skimmer with amino acids as well?

[nvrEnuf]

I don't think I can answer those questions properly.

Skimmers skim without discretion, which is one of the big reasons I do not use one. I do however know that currently, it is assumed by most product manufacturers that there would be a skimmer on 90% of systems. So, for something like dosing amino acids which are next to impossible to test for I make an assumption that I am starting off with more than a skimmed system and tweak from there.

I noticed a spot of hair algea for the first time in a LONG time yesterday so I will clean my scrubber and watch closely to see if a dose reduction is needed. I may not need the reef energy products at all, with no way to test for it, I'll just have to watch the results!

[Manny]

Thanks for the info. I have spent all day yesterday reading up on how to use this system. Seems pretty simple. I did not bother with their nitrate/phosphate reducer because I usually can't keep phosphates higher than zero (using Hanna PO4 checker) but after all that reading I kind of wish I would have purchased it. Seems like this system will work best with ultra low nutrient systems. I might look into buying a biopellet reactor and try that out with the red sea program.

[FarmerTy]

Manny, since you've gotten to read up about it, maybe you can clarify.

As far as I understand, the major part of the program is nutrient reduction and then adding back in needed components, such as vitamins and amino acids. Very similar to a lot of systems out there.

My understanding is that the nutrient removal portion is more than likely just some type of liquid carbon source, like vinegar or vodka. The beneficial part of the Red Sea program is versus just vodka dosing yourself without the kit, it is the metered implementation plan of theirs that keeps it simple by determining your usage based on your results of your tests.

If you're not running the Red Sea program in its entirety, what portion do you plan to use? I just use the vitamins and aminos complex B. Normally I'd be running biopellets and GFO and just dose the vitamins and aminos but my new tank seems to be running fine without either GFO or biopellets.

[Manny]

Manny, since you've gotten to read up about it, maybe you can clarify.

As far as I understand, the major part of the program is nutrient reduction and then adding back in needed components, such as vitamins and amino acids. Very similar to a lot of systems out there.

My understanding is that the nutrient removal portion is more than likely just some type of liquid carbon source, like vinegar or vodka. The beneficial part of the Red Sea program is versus just vodka dosing yourself without the kit, it is the metered implementation plan of theirs that keeps it simple by determining your usage based on your results of your tests.

If you're not running the Red Sea program in its entirety, what portion do you plan to use? I just use the vitamins and aminos complex B. Normally I'd be running biopellets and GFO and just dose the vitamins and aminos but my new tank seems to be running fine without either GFO or biopellets.

Ty as far as what their nutrient reduction ingredients are, I don't know exactly what they are. They PDF just shows that it will help reduce such nutrients as nitrates and phosphates. Never clicked in my mind that it could essentially just be carbon dosing with the red sea label. Either way, their product vs a biopellet reactor would have the same aim in mind. I might still pick up their reducer just to complete the program. I will be using everything else such as the foundation, colors, and nutrition program. Only leaving out the reducer.

[Manny]

O and yes, the major part of the program is nutrient reduction. This is to help intensify colors but also the program will add the trace elements that can help the coral metabolize its own "yummies" (which they do with reduced nutrients). Red Sea claims that photosynthesis provides 85% of the coral needs and the other 15% is metabolized by the coral itself. In low nutrient systems, this supposedly takes a lot of work on the corals behalf. By adding certain carbs and amino acids back into the water, the coral has less work to do to create them themselves and can absorb them from the water column. This is based on my understanding from reading their PDF files and watching their videos.

[Bpb]

Reminds me a bit of the zeovit system minus the zeovit reactor. Seems like a less expensive alternative to the KZ additives or the Elos additives. I really look forward to seeing how this works for you manny.

[jolt]

I read up on it and watched the 5 red sea videos after seeing the posts on this thread. I tried to look around for long term experience reports but did not really find anything. I am also looking forward to hearing how it works for your tank ...

[Manny]

Well this might actually be delayed a tad bit. I am once again starting to see the little red slimy and bubbly pest known as Dino's. Gotta take care of those first then I'll start the red sea program.

[jolt]

Ouch, that sucks!

[Manny]

Not going to worry too much about it. Hopefully it doesn't take long to go away.

Back to a question between neverenuf and myself as for if I should run the skimmer or not, the directions call for the skimmer to be turned off for 30 minutes while dosing the reef energy. I feel like going skimmerless for the dosing period of reef energy but I think it would be even more difficult to keep my phosphates low without it so that is definitely adding to my desire of purchasing the red sea nitrate/phosphate reducer. Still, I will keep you all posted.

[FarmerTy]

I would imagine the nitrate/phosphate reducer component of Red Sea is the liquid carbon dosing element of it. If so, it is best utilized with a skimmer whether they say it's pivotal or not.

[Manny]

I would imagine the nitrate/phosphate reducer component of Red Sea is the liquid carbon dosing element of it. If so, it is best utilized with a skimmer whether they say it's pivotal or not.

Yes sir. That is exactly what it is. Thanks for the input.

[Bpb]

Ty is correct. Any form of organic carbon dosing (vinegar, vodka, sugar, biopellets, Red Sea nutrient reducer) needs at minimum an appropriately sized skimmer and ideally a large skimmer to actually work. Otherwise you'll get nothing but a bunch or bacteria, or worse a bloom causing your oxygen to crash. Is that right Ty?

[FarmerTy]

I wouldn't consider my opinion the final word on the topic but export, primarily via skimmer, of the bacteria is the ideal method to remove the nitrate and phosphate that has been incorporated into cell structure during growth and reproduction. They can also be consumed by corals, sponges, and other inhabitants in the tank but eventually, they will die and release some nutrients back into the water... same principle as macro algae uptake of nutrients via chaeto or other type of algae... if not harvested and removed, if the macro algae dies, it will release the nutrients right back into the system.

[Manny]

As many of you know from a post of mine a few months ago, I had a dino outbreak in my tank. It didn't last long and was not as devastating as most stories I read. I did lose most of my snails during that period and my screaming green birdsnest and birds of paradise colonies took the worst blow. They are not dead. They have well been on the road to recovery but I have had to trim back a few necrotic pieces more than once to stimulate new growth.

Recently I went all out into the Red Sea Reef Care Program (yes I went ahead and ordered their phosphate/nitrate reducer). I had decided not to start the program just yet because I had started once again seeing signs of dino coming back. First sign I see is what appear to be diatoms once again on my sandbed. I do believe in that your tank can go through mini cycles all throughout its first year but a big enough mini cycle to cause diatoms to show up in my tank after a whole year, I doubt that is what it is. Shortly after seeing the diatoms, I noticed the gathering of bubbles all over my powerheads. They seemed to be connected with a mucous holding the bubble together. One day later I started to see a red color coming to that mucous. That is when I determined that it must be dino's once again. I decided to hold off on the red sea products until I got rid of this situation. I figured I would allow it to run it's course and not do much about it except for daily dosing of H2O2. I am suddenly becoming a firm believe that H2O2 DOES really work for dinoflagellate's. one day later, after the first dose, I noticed absolutely no red color to the dino's. I blew the bubbles off of the rockwork with a turkey baster and scraped it off the glass. I am still dosing the H2O2 every day and the dino cannot build up quick enough to cause a disturbance. This is leading my to believe that H2O2 really does work to help reduce/rid one's tank of dino's. I have not done a blackout yet nor have I reduced my feeding. I have only dosed the peroxide and that is it. Of course, this is not full proof that it will absolutely work for everyone and there are many other unseen occurrences going on in my aquarium to be able to say it is solely the H2O2 doing this.

With that being said, I have decided to go ahead and start my red sea supplementation program. Since I was originally not going to use the phosphate reducer, I was going to follow the instructions and raise my alkalinity to the 12dKH range. I had already started dosing sodium bicarbonate to raise the alkalinity up from the current 8.2dKH I keep it at. It is now at 9.1 dKH. Since I will be using their nutrient reducer, the program calls for me to keep my dKH much lower than that. So before I start their coloration program, I must allow my dKH to drop down to the 7-8 dKH range. I will wait and allow this to happen naturally before I start coloration program. i will only dose calcium to keep it at the recommended 440 ppm.

I have however started using their coral nutrition program which consists of Reef Energy part A & B. This consists of a mixture of carbs and amino acids (in simple terms).

This is a 4 part program with the other two parts being the nutrient reducer and the reef foundation which simply consists of their products to dose calcium, alkalinity, magnesium, potassium, bromine, and strontium. They are all added at a predetermined ratio so there is only need for one powder. Of course, I won't need to start this until my parameters are where they need to be for the program and then dose the needed amount. It will be a few weeks before this one gets started as well.

So to recap, I have started the coral nutrition (reef energy), I am waiting for the nutrient reducer to come in through the mail to start up that program, then I need my alkalinity to drop in range so I can start the coral coloration program, and lastly, after all parameters are in range, I will be dosing using the reef foundation program.

I will try to post as many updates as possible to show progress and how this stuff really works. Feel free to follow along. It will definitely be a learning experience. I notice you cannot find much on the web as far as other's experience with this goes. I can't find a complete youtube series of videos documenting this either which makes me want to upload videos on the progress. The issue with that is I work full time and go to school even more full time so I don't have very much free time.

To get a reference as to how things are coming along, I recorded a video a few minutes ago. I will try to have it uploaded by the end of the day. I have to figure out how to delete the background noise and add some Ty flavored music.

Enjoy!

[FarmerTy]

Introduce the music slowly Manny. The trick is to get the following of people first and slowly sneak in crazy background music while they aren't paying attention. It helps to have things in the videos to distract them, like crazy colors and polyps dancing!

Just a thought, as I always share more than what people probably want me to share... but I worry that adding the reef energy portion of the program will push your nutrient load and cause the dinos to get worse. I'd almost aim to start the nutrient reduction first, which in conjuction with the hydrogen peroxide, should nip the dinos in the bud. Then once you have a clean slate of lower nutrients, your alk should have naturally dropped by that time so alk should be inline, and you hit the system with the energy program and whatever reef foundation program you mentioned. Just my 2 cents.

[Manny]

Introduce the music slowly Manny. The trick is to get the following of people first and slowly sneak in crazy background music while they aren't paying attention. It helps to have things in the videos to distract them, like crazy colors and polyps dancing!

Just a thought, as I always share more than what people probably want me to share... but I worry that adding the reef energy portion of the program will push your nutrient load and cause the dinos to get worse. I'd almost aim to start the nutrient reduction first, which in conjuction with the hydrogen peroxide, should nip the dinos in the bud. Then once you have a clean slate of lower nutrients, your alk should have naturally dropped by that time so alk should be inline, and you hit the system with the energy program and whatever reef foundation program you mentioned. Just my 2 cents.

Thanks for the advice Ty. The dino's are almost non-existent now so I will continue rolling with it and if I see an increase in them then I can back off on the reef energy.

So before I post this video, I am totally going against Ty's advice here. As I sat here at my computer doing homework, I suddenly got the urge to listen to Santana. It reminds me of learning to play guitar back in the day and something about his music is just so relaxing to me. I don't think it mixes well with saltwater aquariums but to hell with it, I added Santana as the music. Another heads up, the video is pretty shaky. I just got my new phone and I kept playing with the settings on the camera while I was recording and didn't realize how shaky it was. Anyhow, here is the video. This is simply to get an idea of where I stand with coral health and coral to use as comparison after I have been using the reef care program as instructed. It's not a show off video. When I am trying to show it off, then I will use Ty's advice on choosing the right music.

Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLiqMQ0UYyc&feature=youtu.be

O and Ty, is it creepy that I am watching you clean your glass right now?

[Manny]

Next video/pictures will have a clean glass I promise. And I will have the video end at the end of the recording and not the end of the song lol.