Switching to 2-part help

[Bpb]

So I've been running kalkwasser for well over a year now and love it's simplicity but hate how hard it is on pumps. Got some good advice on trying different pumps but I fear the same thing will keep happening no matter what I use. I'm ready to drop a maxijet into my ATO bucket and just use RODI and call it a day

I have had an apex sitting in my closet since November, with two brs 1.1 mL dosers brand new and a gallon of calcium and a gallon of alkalinity powder waiting to be used. With my recent kalk pump failing I'm ready to throw in the towel and switch primarily to 2 part.

System is a 55 gallon total volume roughly. I dose about 0.75-1 gallon of fully saturated kalk daily. Now I would normally just cease dosing and test to see how much I'm using, but I don't want to put that kind of stress on my sps colonies, and as I keep alk at 7.0, I don't want to risk it plummeting a couple points just in the name of calibration.

Curious as to if anyone has any ideas on how I can estimate how much calcium and alk to start with on the apex dosing to keep me in the neighborhood I'm at now on consumption. I know this could just as easily go in the apex forum, but also wondering if anyone has any code samples to help me get started. Not picky, just want it to work and be stable. Don't really care what time of day it doses

[victoly]

Depending on what supplement you use , there are calculators out there that will get you in the ballpark. Id recommend upping your alk a little bit, because if your pump fails you get out of spec and start losing stuff like me

[+brian.srock]

I use the BRS Calculator http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/reef-calculator The way to estimate how much to dose is fill a bottle with how ever many fl oz you need for which supplement then draw a line with a sharpie. Start your apex up and drip it into the empty bottle and time it until it fills up to the line. Adjust until your time is equal to the line.

I would also recommend picking up a gallon or 2 of the $2 vinegar from walmart just so you can clean up your pumps.

[Bpb]

I am a frequent vinegar user to clean stuff. And I use the brs calculators frequently for eveththing. Unfortinately they don't have a kalkwasser calculator. I've not really measured how muh im using. Just been letting the ato do it's thing an adjust strength of the mixture based on my testing.

[jestep]

Start with 30 seconds to a minute a day and see if it keeps up. Test alk and ca at the same time every day but make sure it's at least an hour after dosing.

Also, dosing with apex is actually 2 minutes if you don't use the Defer function.

To dose for 1 minute you would use something like this:

Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Time 07:56 to 07:57 Then ON
Defer 001:00 Then ON

For 30 seconds:

Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Time 07:56 to 07:57 Then ON
Defer 001:30 Then ON

[Bpb]

I say I'm not picky...

I see a lot of people using oscillating statements for 2 part. Just a rough guesstimation here. But to add 0.5 dKH of alkalinity to the tank, the bulk reef soda ash solution would be roughly 20 mL per day. Assuming that's how much I'm using up and need to add. Wouldn't it be good to add that say...5 times a day or whatever. Letting it run for around 4 minutes per dose, instead of running the pump 20 minutes once a day? I know I need to calibrate the pumps first but assuming they're calibrated at 1.0-1.1 mL per minute is correct.

[Wade]

That's how I do it. I break up the doses into shoet increments through out the day and alternate the alk and Ca doses as well. I'm not sure if alternating the doses is the rigth thing to do so I'll the others comment on that.

[Bpb]

Wade, do you use bulk reef supply 2 part solutions? If so, would you care to copy/paste your programs? I hate to sound lazy guys but I'm really looking for people using the functions the way I want to use them that have proven code that works that way I don't mess something up by a first coding attempt and crash the tank

[jestep]

My doser doses about 30ml per minute so I break mine up into 4 - 30 second periods. The code I posted was directly from my apex, I just removed the extra dosing times.

For your case I would try using the OSC command and running 1 minute per hour.

Fallback OFF
Set OFF
OSC 000:00/001:00/059:00 Then ON

This will run for 1 minute every hour. Then alternate with the ALk and ca so they're not overlapping;

Fallback OFF
Set OFF
OSC 030:00/001:00/059:00 Then ON

[Bpb]

I like that. If i calibrate the pumps and find they move like 1.4-1.5 mL/min, then I can do something like...

OSC 000:00/000:50/059:10 Then ON

right? If I want to dose calcium first, wait a half hour then dose alk how would I modify that?

OSC 030:00/000:50/059:10 Then ON??

Would I put a statement at the end also like

If FeedA Then OFF

If I wanted them to not run during feed times? I assume missing one dose here and there isn't THAT big a deal is it?

[jestep]

Exactly on all points.

You can add conditional statements for your return or other pumps as well. I turn off my GFO reactor pumps when I dose just because it was seriously clogging up.

[Bpb]

Wait...since the alk dose would have a 30 minute wait at the start of the statement...wouldn't i do

OSC 030:00/001:00/029:00

That way it would dose one minute, then wait 29 minutes, the kick back on, wait 30 minutes, then dose. Would that make it to where they didn't overlap, and would dose the same amount of times each day. If I did

OSC 030:00/001:00/059:00 wouldn't it technically wait an hour and 29 minutes between each dose, instead of one hour?

[jestep]

No it would start on the 30 of the hour, dose for a minute, and then wait for 59, so it would recur on the 30 of every hour. The last number is the interval which doesn't care what the starting time is, just how long to wait until the next event.

OSC 030:00/001:00/029:00

This would start on the 30, dose a minute, and then wait 29 minutes, effectively dosing every 30 minutes instead of every hour.

[Richard L]

Just read thru this thread. +1 on the Oscillate command and Jestep is giving you great guidance.

IMO its a waste of time calibrating (or checking the flowrate) of the dosing pumps. It really doesn't matter how much is coming out of pump just that is consistent. When you are first starting out with 2 part you need to test Ca and Alk daily anyway and that's really how you calibrate your 2 part system. In other words: let it run, test, adjust, repeat. After a week you'll have it dialed in and weekly testing is good enough after that.

BTW, when I did 2 part I dosed every hour (Ca on the half hour). I've seen others concentrate their dosing at night to help smooth out the typical pH swing reef tanks exhibit.

[Wade]

I do use BRS dosing pumps and 2-part solutions as well as an Apex Lite. I'll post my programming when I get home this evening.

[Wade]

Here's my Apex programming. I use the pump mode so I can set it to come on for however long I want. The alk and Ca run for different duration, but you get the idea. I might switch to using oscillating statements.

[Bpb]

Thanks wade. That seems like a solid idea using the pump settings as they're built in already and possibly less prone to user error.

In other news. My parameters have been holding pretty steady at 7.0-7.5 dKH and 450 calcium. Haven't tested in a couple weeks. But my biopellets are rounding about the 3 month mark since I installed them and my feedin has been very heavy. I've also increased my fish bioload by about 30% over this course in time. Sps growth has become almost daily noticeable.

Tested this morning. Goodness me. Even with full strength kalkwasser adding close to a gallon a day to 55 gallon water volume, my alk is down to 6.7, and calcium down to 400. Magnesium is not the culprit (1350 ppm). I am manually drip dosing a solution of about 50 mL of soda ash mixed with extra RODI water to slow drip it through the day which should bring me up to about 7.5-8. I definitely don't feel comfortable just leaving it and seeing how far it drops tomorrow.

I'll likely start the program on the low end adding about 30 mL of soda ash and 30 mL of calcium per day and increasing or decreasing from there

[Neon Reefer]

Clean pump in ATO. Another reason whyI like dosing Acetates over Kalk...there are other reasons as well such as no worries over increased pH s

[Bpb]

Oh I clean my pumps and powerheads very regularly.

[Bpb]

Holy smokes this is a nightmare. I cannot get my apex to connect or the browser to come up. I'm having to do all my programming from the display unit. It worked fine when I bought it. Updated firmware and had it rocking. Took it down because I didn't have time to mount it and program it. Now nothing will connect or recognize. Emailing back and forth with neptune support and nothing is working. Webpage wont update either. This is fastly approaching "not worth it" territory. Anyone wanna trade a full apex aquacontroller with probes and brand new BRS dosers for a dedicated multi channel dosing pump or calcium reactor?

Edited February 13, 2014 by Bpb

[victoly]

Step away from the ledge ! When you connect it directly to your computer with Ethernet cable, does the firmware updater recognize it ?

[Bpb]

If a mod wants to move this to the controller forum that's fine. Eitherway we're gonna keep rolling. I've got one foot off the ledge. My other option is to do all of my programming and usage from the display module. I understand this thing will do everything from the display exactly the same as it would from the webage, just alot more button mashing. I cannot connect it directly to my computer. It is a 2013 IMAC without an ethernet jack. I used my wife's laptop to update the firmware originally which has a plug, but she's neck deep in nursing school right now and has it with her at school, and at work, and pretty much 100% of the time when we're ate home she's using it. Kind of hard for me to say "honey, quit setting yourself up for your career, so I can mess with my fish tank"

[jestep]

Go into the networking section on the display module and post what it is set to. The web interface is the best part of the apex, definitely worth figuring out what's going on with it.

[Planeden]

No Ethernet plug? I guess it looked too much like a button.

[Bpb]

DHCP on