jestep Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I've looked at a ton of threads and can't find any sort of definitive answer on this. Not really an emergency but would like to figure it out. Can anyone suggest what would cause slowly bleaching, possible STN'ing SPS bases. I've noticed this on a few nice colonies I have over the course of a few weeks to months. Stable params, not a single predator to my knowledge and isn't species specific, have a digi, a few acros, and a setosa that appear to be suffering. Definitely not light related such as when undersides and heavily shaded tissue changes color. High alk or too low localized flow maybe? My alk is stable but at the higher end. PE, growth, and coloration are excellent on all of these. Getting a bit crowded, so low flow at the base is a possibility. These are about the best ideas I've come up with. Confident it's not a PO4, NO3, or other nutrient issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 More often than not I see tissue loss around the base as a colony grows. But sometimes I see it happen very quickly when a colony is moved to another tank then stop all the while the branches are showing growth. What's harder still is if it is the result of two or more variables. If something happens that causes a coral to be less tolerant to lower light levels. Collectively building a database of species when it happens with as many water parameters as possible as well as light levels and any changes in additives and equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I bought a bunch of Scubasteve's sps when he broke down his tank. Out of the two blue acros I got, the largest one completely bleached within a few days. The smaller blue acro bleached 0.25" of the base and has since been doing well. The green/purple acro bleached about 1" on the left side, but has since stopped and gained color when I moved it to the top 10" of the tank. None of the digis were affected. I couldn't figure it out either and I contributed it to a lighting and tank change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Jestep, perhaps get readings using another fellow reefer test kits to confirm all of your levels? I've ran across 3 reefers in the last 3 months that had a level out of whack but their tests always said it was a different level then what they had been testing. Just an idea to rule out your tank parameters for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckyuv Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Check the bases for little black spots, it seems pretty uncommon but black bugs got me and killed my sps. Might be worth lookin for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Gotta agree with Ty. If you're running high and there is test error, you may be out of range. Come grab that hypnea and I'll check your alk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+brian.srock Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I have noticed it too. It's a very, very slow bleaching of the base. Are the polyps out and the coral looks healthy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jestep Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 I'll definitely get a second test on the params. Only 3 I can think of that would likely apply would be Alk, PO4 and possibly NO3. Just based on algae growth, I'm fairly confident it's not PO4. I check with a Hanna weekly and switched to the multi reactor GFO setup that Richard was using to curb spikes when the GFO is swapped out. Temp and salinity very stable. I do 10% water changes every other week and match Temp, Sg, Ca, and Alk before doing a change. I do not run carbon anymore at all. I'll look close up for black bugs. I would think it would be more of an epidemic but definitely will look closer up. I have noticed it too. It's a very, very slow bleaching of the base. Are the polyps out and the coral looks healthy? Polyp extension is fine on all of them. It's extremely slow. I originally thought these just weren't encrusting well, but after a few weeks it looks like it is slowly progressing. I'll try to get a good picture when my lights are on today. Gotta agree with Ty. If you're running high and there is test error, you may be out of range. Come grab that hypnea and I'll check your alk. Possibly Saturday. Have a soccer game tonight. This office move has sucked up most of my free time for the past month. May have you check my PO4 at the same time. I can bring a spare hanna reagent over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jestep Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 Does low flow cause localized recession? May be time to soak my WP40. It's getting a bit gummed up with film and coraline algae. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I'll definitely get a second test on the params. Only 3 I can think of that would likely apply would be Alk, PO4 and possibly NO3. Just based on algae growth, I'm fairly confident it's not PO4. I check with a Hanna weekly and switched to the multi reactor GFO setup that Richard was using to curb spikes when the GFO is swapped out. Temp and salinity very stable. I do 10% water changes every other week and match Temp, Sg, Ca, and Alk before doing a change. I do not run carbon anymore at all. I'll look close up for black bugs. I would think it would be more of an epidemic but definitely will look closer up. I have noticed it too. It's a very, very slow bleaching of the base. Are the polyps out and the coral looks healthy? Polyp extension is fine on all of them. It's extremely slow. I originally thought these just weren't encrusting well, but after a few weeks it looks like it is slowly progressing. I'll try to get a good picture when my lights are on today. >Gotta agree with Ty. If you're running high and there is test error, you may be out of range. Come grab that hypnea and I'll check your alk. Possibly Saturday. Have a soccer game tonight. This office move has sucked up most of my free time for the past month. May have you check my PO4 at the same time. I can bring a spare hanna reagent over. Don't worry about it. I've got a bunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jestep Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 Feel pretty dumb right now but pretty sure I figured it out. I went and tested at lunch, and same thing ~11 dkh. I went through my box of aquarium junk in the garage and found 2 more Alk tests in there. Both were pretty much used up but enough for maybe 1 more test after today. Both test read around 4 dhk which doesn't make a lot of sense when my alk dosing is automated. So then I went and manually turned on the alk dosing pump and sure enough, nothing came out... Replaced the tubing and it works fine. So going to get back up to ~10 dkh over the next 5 or so days. I guess it's good that I've been paying a ton of attention to the tank lately because the bleaching is really subtle. Tubing probably got clogged and slowly ended up dosing nothing which is why it took so long for any noticeable effect in the tank. Hoping this was the issue and if so I'm really glad I caught it before I actually lost anything. I'll bring some water over just to confirm the alk, can probably throw some in the freezer now, but I doubt that 3 separate tests are all incorrect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planeden Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I'll bring some water over just to confirm the alk, can probably throw some in the freezer now, but I doubt that 3 separate tests are all incorrect. especially if all three read the same value. three wrong tests, hard to imagine. three wrong test with the same result, near impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Glad you got to the bottom of it Jestep. Maybe I missed something but you said you tested at lunch today and it read 11 dKh? How come the next two tests read 4 dKh? Was there a problem with the 11 dKh reagent? Was it old? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Feel pretty dumb right now but pretty sure I figured it out. I went and tested at lunch, and same thing ~11 dkh. I went through my box of aquarium junk in the garage and found 2 more Alk tests in there. Both were pretty much used up but enough for maybe 1 more test after today. Both test read around 4 dhk which doesn't make a lot of sense when my alk dosing is automated. So then I went and manually turned on the alk dosing pump and sure enough, nothing came out... Replaced the tubing and it works fine. So going to get back up to ~10 dkh over the next 5 or so days. I guess it's good that I've been paying a ton of attention to the tank lately because the bleaching is really subtle. Tubing probably got clogged and slowly ended up dosing nothing which is why it took so long for any noticeable effect in the tank. Hoping this was the issue and if so I'm really glad I caught it before I actually lost anything. I'll bring some water over just to confirm the alk, can probably throw some in the freezer now, but I doubt that 3 separate tests are all incorrect. Keep it in the fridge, and make sure the container it's in isn't exposed to air (i.e., fill the container all the way up). Lab standards call alk to be tested within 14 days if you preserve by keeping it just above freezing. Fridge should be OK for a few days. for Glad you figured it out. Same thing happened to me, i got lazy and my alk dipped as my tank needs went up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon Reefer Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Hum...Another reason I like dosing Salifert thru my ATO. Not a salt and no small tubing so it doesn't mes with a finicky system, and once you determine your system needs it is extremely easy to dial in and remains reliable. Of course i don't get the benefit of many small doses a day. My system averages about 2-3 doses per day. But my spikes are less than with salts, so it all balances out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 How would a clogged peristaltic be any different with one supplement than another? Low alk is low alk via salifert or via whatever supplement jestep uses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jestep Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 Glad you got to the bottom of it Jestep. Maybe I missed something but you said you tested at lunch today and it read 11 dKh? How come the next two tests read 4 dKh? Was there a problem with the 11 dKh reagent? Was it old? I guess it would be a bad or contaminated reagent. It definitely wasn't new but I don't think it was super old. The other 2 I had are pretty much empty as well, so going to order a salifert kit and watch it over the next few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Exact same thing is happening to me right now No idea what is going on, ive been monitoring alk/temp/pH very closely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I'm starting to think there is something in the water. My tank is usually bulletproof as far as SPS are concerned and the last 3 days, 5 of my colonies have started to STN at the base. I wish I could say that I haven't made any changes but with the tank upgrade, I've made some minor changes here and there so it makes it more difficult to pinpoint the issue. All parameters are good as always... except I ran out of alk reagent so I cant test that until tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+etannert Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I have plenty if you're dying to know tonight's, just text me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Thanks for the offer Etannert! I got back into town today so I'm wiped out and gonna just call it a night. If I am not able to get the reagent tomorrow, I may ping you! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckyuv Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Ugh oh arc got and sps std. Sounds like there is somethin in the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 What concerns me most is that I have a colony that I have had since I started sps that I have absolutely abused and have NEVER had any issues with has started to RTN. Doesn't make any sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jestep Posted February 1, 2014 Author Share Posted February 1, 2014 What concerns me most is that I have a colony that I have had since I started sps that I have absolutely abused and have NEVER had any issues with has started to RTN. Doesn't make any sense. I hope not. Something making it through RO/DI filters enough to effect a bunch of tanks would be concerning. It does seem a little more than a coincidence that a bunch of tanks are seeing similar issues. Maybe it's something environmental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I'm just as stumped on what the cause may be but my suspicions are my alk level since it was the one parameter I haven't tested yet and I recently decreased the bubbling rate to my CaRX since I felt the effluent pH was drifting way too low. Odd thing is I didn't tweak it too much so I'd be surprised that it caused enough of a swing to cause STN but perhaps all the tank changes from the upgrade may have compounded the problem. Good thing is the STN looks like it has mostly stopped after I blindly increased my alk (scary, I know, but I trust my instincts more these days). I would not recommend doing that if someone else finds themselves in the same bind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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