Stocking: bioload vs. pecking order

[+etannert]

I'm starting to think through stocking for the bigger tank. I've always been one to "overstock" a tank (I kept three small fish in a Biocube 14...) so while it may seem like quite a few fish, I feel confident the tank and my husbandry can handle the bioload.

Currently I have three fish:

Helfrichi firefish

small Atlantic blue tang

medium skunk clownfish

I want to add:

tribal blennie (to replace mine that got lost in the tank move)

pajama cardinal (to replace the one that jumped a few weeks ago)

banggai cardinal

chevron tang

McCosker's wrasse

twinspot hogfish

green (spotted) mandarin

harlequin shrimp

I used to have an orange spot prawn gobie... to be honest, I can't recall the last time I saw it and don't know when it departed me. (I feel sort of awful about that...). Might consider replacing that as well, just to have a ground dweller/sand sifter.

I prefer lots of small fish in general, and I want all of these to be smaller. I know you have to worry about fish outgrowing their tanks, but I'm not a heavy feeder and my Atlantic blue tang hasn't grown much since I've had him.

My question is: many people say you should add certain fish at once to eliminate territorial issues... I can see that between the tangs or between the hogfish and wrasse; cardinals don't tend to mess with each other so I'm not worried about them. However, with a younger/newer tank I need to be careful about overwhelming the bioload and kicking off an algae bloom. How many fish can I safely add at once, and how long should I wait between deposits of new fish?

[victoly]

I would be that you could add the bulk of the small fish (blennies, cardinals) in one shot no big deal. I'd wait on the mandarin until you're positive you can sustain the food source. After that, if it were me, I'd add one of the big fish at a time (wrasses and hogfish).

And as for sand sifters, I have a yasha hase goby, and it's pretty easily my favorite tank inhabitant. He hides 50% of the time, but is so freakin cool that its worth it.

[jestep]

What size is the tank going to be? To me that's the biggest question if it's coming down to aggression. Chevron tangs get huge. I don't think I would put one in less than about a 150 gallon tank. I don't think I'd put a blue tang in less than that either.

I've got a yellow and kole tang in my 90 gallon and they are pretty much best friends. I wouldn't think you would have problem with the blue and the chevron since they are both different species but the tank must be large enough for them to have their own territories. Blue tangs are other Acanthurus are notorious for being aggressive towards other tangs. If the tank isn't big enough, he's going to destroy the chevron.

Other than that, add the most peaceful species first so the more aggressive ones don't establish and protect a larger territory. I would also do it over the course of a few months to better gauge how the tank reacts to the increased bioload. If you're looking for a few more colorful and peaceful fish that stay small, check out a royal gramma and springer's damsel.

[Timfish]

What they said but honestly the problems I see are going to be in a few years. Most of the smaller fish you have listed will be very old in 4 or 5 years while the larger fish may live decades so adding new fish as some age and die off when you have well established mature fish may be a challenge. I'm inclined to suggest designing your aquascaping with the idea of someday putting dividers in place while you acclimated new fish.

[mFrame]

I'm wondering how safe the harleuqin would be with wrasse and or hogfish. That would be my only real concern.

[Robb in Austin]

Tank size is going to be the limiting factor IMO. Those tangs will require a large tank. ALL those fish in 1 system will require a very large tank (6ft by 2-3 ft at a minimum IMO). Also, buying any of those in a small enough size to go into a solana will be very tricky in and of itself as smaller fish are more delicate.

That said, IME, I'd add the most docile of that list first and work your way up the aggressiveness list.

[+etannert]

It's for my 60g cube - I kept 6 fish, all the small goby type, in the Solana with no problems.

[Robb in Austin]

Still to small for the whole list.

IMO, look at the tank foot print vs gallon size when determining which fish will 'fit'. 6 small goby sized fish will fit just fine in a 60 cube. Tang? Nope.

Keep the 6 you have, upgrade your tank to a good sized system(at least a 6 ft), and then add all the others.

Edit: I've got 2 royal grammas, a sailfin, a blue-green chromis, 2 breeding Clarki's, a starry blenny, and a melanarus wrasse in a 75 and it's tight. Especially when the Clarki's get eggs going.

I realize you don't have a breeding pair of clowns but adding a hog fish or 'fish only' wrasse will be similar in terms of aggressiveness.

[nvrEnuf]

I was worried adding my Harle in with my fairly aggressive (but mostly just curious) four line.

She put those pincers to work! The wrasse came in to investigate and she flared up and popped him one in the kisser and the wrasse BOLTED. Took all of two minutes for her to settle in. Now when adding star fish arms the wrasse nibbles until the harlequin shows up then gives way as the shrimp takes it's food. It should also be noted that a pair of these shrimp where the last addition to the show tank at the dome. They do fine with multiple tangs, hogs, and wrasse in the tank. What is more important IMO with this specie is choice of substrate. The finer it is, the easier the stars settle down and hide their scent. Since most people feed choc chip stars and those can eat soft coral I would suggest a substrate that gives the shrimp a chance to find the stars easily, or keep the main body in the sump and cut arms as needed.

I would also suggest you have all wrasse and aggressive feeders in and have then confirmed pod population before adding the mandarin. My fourline pretty much wiped out my pods for a good three or four months before they re-bounded. Only now (5 months after adding wrasse) do I think I am getting close to ready for a mandarin. I understand they are very poor hunters.

I did make the mistake of adding the wrasse early, but I solved this by building a trap and putting him in QT when adding new lesser aggressive species to the display. I have a pair of fire fish going in to the DT weekend after next, so the wrasse will spend that following week in QT before going back in to see what territory is left for him. When the final fish goes in (yellow tang) I don't plan on removing the wrasse as the tang should handle him fine.

As to the high population, I like a populated tank myself, but I try to run a system that can also handle a little overfeeding. IMHO an underfed overstocked tank is a recipe for infection and illness.

[Planeden]

I did make the mistake of adding the wrasse early, but I solved this by building a trap and putting him in QT when adding new lesser aggressive species to the display. I have a pair of fire fish going in to the DT weekend after next, so the wrasse will spend that following week in QT before going back in to see what territory is left for him. When the final fish goes in (yellow tang) I don't plan on removing the wrasse as the tang should handle him fine.

that is one bad shrimp.

i have read that you can solve the territory problem by rearranging the tank a little when putting in new fish. that breaks up the territories to an extent and may be less stressful on everyone than the swappidoo. never mind the dogma that can be created when a god takes a fish and returns it several days later.

[+etannert]

Still to small for the whole list.

IMO, look at the tank foot print vs gallon size when determining which fish will 'fit'. 6 small goby sized fish will fit just fine in a 60 cube. Tang? Nope.

Keep the 6 you have, upgrade your tank to a good sized system(at least a 6 ft), and then add all the others.

Edit: I've got 2 royal grammas, a sailfin, a blue-green chromis, 2 breeding Clarki's, a starry blenny, and a melanarus wrasse in a 75 and it's tight. Especially when the Clarki's get eggs going.

I realize you don't have a breeding pair of clowns but adding a hog fish or 'fish only' wrasse will be similar in terms of aggressiveness.

lol... the 60 cube IS the upgrade.

I only have 3 fish currently. They are listed in the initial post.

[nvrEnuf]

i have read that you can solve the territory problem by rearranging the tank a little when putting in new fish. that breaks up the territories to an extent and may be less stressful on everyone than the swappidoo. never mind the dogma that can be created when a god takes a fish and returns it several days later.

I have read this as well, but think it more applicable to a FOWLR. All of my rocks have corals on them, and most of the rocks are epoxied together. I don't re'scape unless I have to!

Like most things in this hobby, a little planning goes a long way; it isn't hard to set a trap in the morning and pull the wrasse out in the afternoon. Sometimes a goby or cardinal is in with him, but that's an easier fix than a broken chalice or acro from a fallen or misplaced rock!