Trying to figure out my 2-part dosing

[Wade]

I agree. Here are my parameter readings over the past 6 months. PO4 and NO3 are alwasy 0.00 when checked. I typically do a 10% water change every 7 - 10 days and check my parameters each time or twice a month. I noticed that I actually skipped a month below, but that was a busy month and the tank was doing good. The only reason I really started to dose now is that I now have around 25 stony frags and I know if I want to see any growth out of them then I need to keep the calcium up in the 450 range.

5/31 - pH:8.26, salinity - 1.024, dKH - 9.2, Ca - 350

6/13 - dKH - 10.4, Ca 430 (I dosed it up a bit), Mg 1120

6/18 - Ca - 430, dKH - 9.0, Mg - 1320

6/29 - Ca - 480, Dkh - 8.4, Mg - 1500

7/20 - Ca - 480, dKH - 9.4, Mg 1440

8/11 - Ca - 440, dKH - 9.5, Mg 1440

8/25 - Ca - 390, dKH - 7.0, Mg 1200 (this is following adding 17 stony frags (SPS and LPS) 4 days earlier that I got at a frag swap) I dosed 1370 ml of Mg, 152 ml of Soda Ash, and 522 ml calcium over three day period and then did a 30% water change

8/28 - Ca - 475, dKH 8.7, Mg - 1250

8/31 - Ca 425, dKH - 7.0

9/19 - Ca - 400, dKH - 7.7, Mg 1240

9/29 - Ca - 400, dKH 7.7, Mg - 1440

10/26 - Ca - 375, dKH 7.7, Mg 1440

11/8 - Ca 375, dKH 8.6, Mg 1320

11/30 - Ca 400, dKH 7.7, Mg 1440

As you can see, my parameters have been staying pretty constant.

[Bpb]

Bpb,

Sitting here thinking about this again and I don't want to derail Wade's question. I have a question though.

So I see two options:

1) you do frequent (weekly) water changes and your levels all stay pretty much perfect.

2) you do no water changes really and you dose daily.

I would think that option 2 would open up a lot of risks. If you miss a dose or something goes wrong, you have the potential for a catastrophic event with a tank crash because your water change regimen is not there and you are relying on dosing.

Option 1 is just good husbandry and you are creating a nice security blanket of sorts.

Now, I would think that people with very large tanks > 180 gallons would want to go the dosing option possibly.

Make sense? Or am I missing something?

I think we're talking about two different things regarding using a balanced salt. If the OP was having trouble getting his tank parameters balanced I'd agree that starting with a quality salt mix is an excellent first step. But as far as maintenance of parameters goes...in my personal experience, water changes alone aren't enough for my personal stock and bioload. I've tried the daily water change thing and it wasnt adequate. I still do water changes, 10% every two weeks, religiously change out carbon and GFO as well as run biopellets. I dose about 3/4 gallon of saturated kalkwasser daily through my ATO and I still have to manually bump up my alkalinity, calcium, and magnesium with 2-part dosing.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Bpb

[Wade]

I completed the water change about 45 minutes ago and just tested the alkalinity with the Salifert kit and my old Red Sea Reef Foundation Pro kit. I stopped using the Red Sea kit because the color change was going to a piss yellow instead of the red it should go to. I've been using the Salifert kit for about 5 or 6 months. The Red Sea has my alkalinity somewhere between 9 - 10dKH. it's hard to tell for sure, but the color started changing from the teal to the yellow around the 9 mark. The Salifert has the alkalinity at 4.1 dKH. Huge disparity there. I'm headed down to the LFS to get a new kit.

[Planeden]

I completed the water change about 45 minutes ago and just tested the alkalinity with the Salifert kit and my old Red Sea Reef Foundation Pro kit. I stopped using the Red Sea kit because the color change was going to a piss yellow instead of the red it should go to. I've been using the Salifert kit for about 5 or 6 months. The Red Sea has my alkalinity somewhere between 9 - 10dKH. it's hard to tell for sure, but the color started changing from the teal to the yellow around the 9 mark. The Salifert has the alkalinity at 4.1 dKH. Huge disparity there. I'm headed down to the LFS to get a new kit.

take a water sample for them to test. it may save you on buying a new one if it matches the results from one or the other. also it gives piece of mind that it has been done by an expert . some LFSs may charge a small fee for some parameters.

[Wade]

Good idea!

[Bpb]

Always gotta put my 2 cents in lol. I have both Red Sea pro and salifert alk tests. My salifert reads about 0.8-1 dKH lower than the Red Sea test. No LFS local for me to get a 3rd opinion. Red Sea is easier to use so I just go by that

[Planeden]

Red Sea is easier to use so I just go by that

got a little chuckle out of this. when in doubt, the easiest answer to get to is right. that's my kind of reefing.

for my Ca test on API it never gets to the color printed in the book. but it says "once it gets blue it usually takes two more drops to get to purple". so i just count up to blue and add two . it was verified by the LFS and fits well into my "good enough for government work" philosophy.

[Wade]

One LFS didn't have a kit check the alkalinity (this is what we deal with here) and the other had a Seachum multi test pH and alkalinity kit that tested the alkalinity to be 3meq which is about 8 dKH I guess. Anyone have an opinion on the Seachum kit?

[jestep]

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/8/review

There was another that had API in it but I can't find the link now. I will admit that the only 2 API tests I still use are Ca and Alk. I tested them against salifert a bunch of times and the results were acceptable for the 1/4 cost of a salifert test kit.

[Wade]

Okie dokie. I received the API KH test kit from Amazon today and following two 10% water changes over the past week it test out to between 9 and 10 which is good. The Ca tested out at 350 ppm so it needs to come up. I would like to keep it at about 480. So how do I raise the Ca while keeping the alkalinity the same? I have a 20 gallon sump so i'm estimating my total water volume to be about 85 gallons. The BRS calculator states that I need to add 1131ml of the calcium solution to bring it up to my desired set point. It does not however tell me how much of the soda ash solution i need to add at the same time to keep the alkalinity from dropping.

[victoly]

480 is too high and won't benefit your animals. You're just gonna precipitate more in your equipment.

[Wade]

You're right. The ideal range is 380 - 450. Sorry about that. So if I want to bring it up to say 425 I still have the same dilemma of bringing up the Ca while keeping the alkalinity the same.

[victoly]

Why don't you just add maybe 20% of the solution and see how it affects the alkalinity ( i doubt it will change at all) and if it does just dose alk accordingly;

[Wade]

I want to try and avoid the roller coaster effect if at all possible. Maybe adding it slowly over the course of a week would do it, but I have to think if I raise the calcium by 75ppm, then the alkalinity will be affected. If not, then there wouldn't be a point to 2 part dosing.

[victoly]

add 20% of the necessary solution to get your calcium where it needs to be and measure the increase in calc and decrease in calc. that's not a rollercoaster by any means and shouldnt have significant impact on your alk.

[Wade]

ok. I'll start the calcium going in the morning. Is it better to dose calcium during the day and alk at night or does it really matter?

[victoly]

doesnt matter typically. some dose alk at night, but it never made enough of a difference for me to care.

[Wade]

I dosed some Ca last night into this morning and brought it up to 385. The alkalinity is now down to approximately 8. Tonight I'll dose both intermittently. I see what it takes to raise the alkalinity to 10 and dose that much so maybe it'll stay at 8.

[Wade]

That worked perfectly! i dosed both alk and Ca overnight and tested again Sunday evening and the alk was still at 8 and the Ca was at 450. I'll let it sit and test again wednesday evening to see what's being consumed.

[Wade]

i started dosing last night and have noticed that my pH has steadily climbed throughout the day and is now 8.46. How high is too high and is this typically why folks dose at night when pH usually falls a bit?