Sascha D. Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 Yeah I'm glad that I bought my house when I did in 2012. The property market is going crazy right now. I think the last piece of equipment that I'll need is a controller. I can't get by without one anymore. It's too hard to keep the calcium reactor dialed in manually. The Reef Angel is about $200 cheaper than the Apex, so I will probably try that one. It's unlikely that I will do all of the cool tech stuff that most of you do so cheaper is going to be better for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolt Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I would add that the $25 Reef Angel PH probe is not lab grade. I noticed a big difference in accuracy and time between required calibrations when I upgraded to a BRS lab grade PH probe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 Jim do you think I need lab grade for the reactor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolt Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I've never run a calcium reactor, but I would think it ultimately depends on how often you want to calibrate the probe. I was having to calibrate the basic probe too frequently for my own preferences (something like every two weeks), and I think the lifetime of the non lab grade is shorter too. In my opinion its well worth the extra $ for lab grade. If you have the time there's a good video on BRS website that explains the differences in probes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 As I understand it, the probe is inserted into the reactor to measure the pH within the chamber. The calcium media dissolves at a pH below 6.9 and the controller is used to trigger the C02 when the pH gets too high and turn it off when it falls too low. I haven't researched it exactly, but I imagine the code would work something like this. pH >6.8 = turn on solenoid pH <6.4 = turn off solenoid I believe both the Apex and Reef Angel come with a pH probe. I also have an extra probe sitting around. I could use those two probes and get a lab grade probe when I need a replacement or sell them and buy the lab grade if the pH reading in the reactor needs to be as precise as possible. The question is, how precise does the pH reading from the reactor have to be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manny Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Sascha, if I may, I have watched you talk about an apex for a while now. I have seen you post that you are saving up for one and then that you are selling coral to save up for the apex. I saw you post somewhere where a debate, for lack of a better term, was going on and you were set on an apex. Now I don't own an apex but it is in my future. As having seen your previous comments I would advise against the reef Angel. Only due to the fact that you have been so set on an apex and this would be your settling for a RA. I think it better to hold off a tad bit more, keep watering those pennies of yours and wait for them to grow just a little bit taller. I just hate seeing when,someone settles for something and then is unsatisfied months down the road and say "I should have waited". Totally objective though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 If you already have two probes, just run with that. Just make sure your extra probe you've been storing was stored properly, else it's toast anyways. If it is toast, then just order the lab grade probe and use it on the reactor. You have the correct idea for controlling the CaRX. I tend to keep a tighter window than 6.4-6.8 for the solenoid. I currently am at 6.5-6.6 and my solenoid only turns on/off every 3 hrs. That's actually amazing as I usually have it actuating 2x/hr. You want to not have to actuate too much and try to have the setting on the regulator close enough to not even needing the solenoid to turn on/off much... that way if your solenoid ever stops working, which mine has done 2x in 4 years (so it happens), your system won't be flooded with CO2. Hopefully your controller alarms will go off to warn you of that but it's a nice failsafe to have the bubble rate close to what it's supposed to be anyways and not have the solenoid do all the work for you. I have two regular probes. If one ever doesn't calibrate well anymore or drifts too quickly after calibration, then my replacement will be a lab grade version. Either way, I only calibrate 2x/year and it doesn't drift too bad so Jim's experience with his regular probe might be more the exception than the rule. For your question on precision of the reactor ph probe, as precise as you can get. Even when I make a simple change of 0.02 pH on my controller, it has drastic effects on the amount of alk/Ca I am putting into my system through the reactor. The more precise, the better in my opinion. Hope that helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+brian.srock Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I did experience a problem with RA pH probe and contacted RA support and they got me a new free probe w/ free shipping. I also had a faulty ATO switch which they replaced which actually caused the faulty pH probe to begin with. They are always very responsive and I didn't pay anything extra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 Sascha, if I may, I have watched you talk about an apex for a while now. I have seen you post that you are saving up for one and then that you are selling coral to save up for the apex. I saw you post somewhere where a debate, for lack of a better term, was going on and you were set on an apex. Now I don't own an apex but it is in my future. As having seen your previous comments I would advise against the reef Angel. Only due to the fact that you have been so set on an apex and this would be your settling for a RA. I think it better to hold off a tad bit more, keep watering those pennies of yours and wait for them to grow just a little bit taller. I just hate seeing when,someone settles for something and then is unsatisfied months down the road and say "I should have waited". Totally objective though. You're right Manny. I can appreciate an honest opinion. I have been debating with myself and fighting the necessity for a controller for a long time. Over the last year or so I thought it was between Apex and Reef Keeper. That's it. I probably would have gone with the RK long ago if the reviews weren't so bad. There are few things in this world that get to me more than feeling like I've wasted money. That left only one option, but the price tag is more than I can justify spending for what I am going to use the controller for. Part of me is just looking for a substantial reason to pull the trigger and just never found one. About a month or two ago I heard about the Reef Angel and started to research that one. The reviews are shockingly good on every website, much like the Apex. I'm not a tech wizard and I didn't delve too deeply into the mechanics, so they look near identical to me. The main difference is that the Apex is $700 for the unit and all of the modules I need while the Reef Angel is $400. The price minus the gift cards I won would bring me into the acceptable range of what I think the controller functions are worth. Truthfully, I still don't think I need a controller. The reason I want one is because my pH monitor went down and I need something to keep the calcium reactor stable. Right now it swings too much. I'm going to have to buy a pH monitor anyway for somewhere between $125-200 so I may as well spend the extra $200ish and get the controller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manny Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Sascha, if I may, I have watched you talk about an apex for a while now. I have seen you post that you are saving up for one and then that you are selling coral to save up for the apex. I saw you post somewhere where a debate, for lack of a better term, was going on and you were set on an apex. Now I don't own an apex but it is in my future. As having seen your previous comments I would advise against the reef Angel. Only due to the fact that you have been so set on an apex and this would be your settling for a RA. I think it better to hold off a tad bit more, keep watering those pennies of yours and wait for them to grow just a little bit taller. I just hate seeing when,someone settles for something and then is unsatisfied months down the road and say "I should have waited". Totally objective though.You're right Manny. I can appreciate an honest opinion. I have been debating with myself and fighting the necessity for a controller for a long time. Over the last year or so I thought it was between Apex and Reef Keeper. That's it. I probably would have gone with the RK long ago if the reviews weren't so bad. There are few things in this world that get to me more than feeling like I've wasted money. That left only one option, but the price tag is more than I can justify spending for what I am going to use the controller for. Part of me is just looking for a substantial reason to pull the trigger and just never found one. About a month or two ago I heard about the Reef Angel and started to research that one. The reviews are shockingly good on every website, much like the Apex. I'm not a tech wizard and I didn't delve too deeply into the mechanics, so they look near identical to me. The main difference is that the Apex is $700 for the unit and all of the modules I need while the Reef Angel is $400. The price minus the gift cards I won would bring me into the acceptable range of what I think the controller functions are worth. Truthfully, I still don't think I need a controller. The reason I want one is because my pH monitor went down and I need something to keep the calcium reactor stable. Right now it swings too much. I'm going to have to buy a pH monitor anyway for somewhere between $125-200 so I may as well spend the extra $200ish and get the controller. I understand. Good luck with whichever choice you make. Maybe you will be the one to convince me to look into the reef Angel. . . maybe not, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolt Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I don't think anyone is trying to convince anyone, the RA is definitely not for everyone However, if anyone does purchase a Reef Angel then Robert Imai and the RA forums are a good resource for support, and there are a couple of us here who would be willing to offer help/advice. Mine has been solid for 12 months now ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 The real beauty of ARC is the wealth of information sharing. Anyone can read a review online, but here people share their real world experiences with products and livestock. The information Ty gave about his reactor is invaluable. You can't just find something like that on an Amazon.com review. When I piece that together with Jim and Brian's experiences, I know exactly how to handle future situations instead of being blindsided by them. In the end I will probably think about it for another week just because that's how I am. Think on it, then wait and think on it some more. Without you guys, your opinions, and experiences I would never have bought LED's, set up a reactor or made a manifold. I would have done it the way I've been doing it since 1991. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvrEnuf Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 With that in mind..... I love my RK elite, but I wouldn't mind "upgrading" to an Apex. I was sold when I still had my BC29 while watching the BRS video about buying a controller up-front and how much it "saves" ou in the long run. And, I've been hapier ever since. I don't even have the PH probe calibrated (well, mentally I do), and it has made the stability and ease of use to a point I would never give up. In other words, having read your thread I don't think you really NEED the apex because you aren't chasing the automation I am. There isn't anything wrong with the RK, it just isn't the industry leader and therfor the standard for companies like BML or Tunze is to go with the Apex platform. However, for what you are looking for the reef keeper easily does the job. Yes, the customer service is not great, and the programing is a bit primatve. But, there is not a single thing on my tank not plugged into the RK elite, and I LOVE what functions it does have. Do I NEED the Apex? Nope, not at all....I just want it because I'm a gear head. It's like, my Ocean Revive T247's are badass and MORE than enough PAR, but I'd still take the Radion Pro's if I could afford them; just cuz I'm a gear head. Is the apex better than the RK? Yes Is the RK a perfectly good and capable controller? Yes The question becomes what does the Apex have that you're willing to pay the extra expense for? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Well said! Don't be a RK Rob Lowe, be DirecTV Rob Lowe instead! Just kidding... I think nvrEnuf nailed it right on the head! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 The question becomes what does the Apex have that you're willing to pay the extra expense for? I think this about sums up where I am in the thought process. I need something to control my lights, monitor the pH in my reactor, and run the ATO. A feed mode wouldn't be bad, but that's standard. After that I may upgrade to a leak detector or dosing pump in the future. That's about it. I haven't checked the temp since I switched the T-5's for LED about a year ago, there is absolutely zero reason to check salinity on an established tank, I see no reason to check ORP, and my tank is open top so I don't need to check humidity. Some people like the dimming function of a controller, but I've been told my lights aren't controller dimmable and it's unlikely I'll upgrade for the function. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 In other news... I believe phosphate input is greater than the tank's uptake. I guess removing all of that macro did have an effect after all. Doh! So now I have three choices: Lower bio load i.e. less fish or feed less. Currently there is no CUC. Adding some bristles might lower the amount of food that goes uneaten. GFO Reactor Lanathum dosing Each option has their own advantages and disadvantages. I like having a good fish load and I don't want to have to get rid of any. However, lowering the load would help the corals and it's the cheapest option. Incorporating a reactor would be easy because I could just hook it up to my manifold. I don't really like the idea of not knowing when to change it though. Most people either change it when they see a problem or on set time intervals. It's also the most expensive option and has diminishing returns. Lanathum dosing takes the most control, but is also the most effective. I may be able to get it on a weekly cycle. It's not as expensive as GFO, but there is less room for error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Welcome to every other system out there Sascha! [emoji13] Almost all of our systems have a disproportionate amount of phosphate being imported into the system versus exported. You just had the perfect amount of macro, skimming, and lower bioload to thwart it up until now. Out of all the options, I like the reactor/GFO option best. I might have mentioned before but lanthanum chloride works great to remove large amounts of phosphate in huge water volumes but struggles to remove the levels typically below 0.1 ppm. GFO will be more effective below 0.1 ppm depending how low you want to take your levels. I prefer 0.03 ppm for SPS dominated tanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 Option 4: Rage quit! Sell off all of the SPS, sell the reactor, let polyps take over the world and don't worry about phosphates. Awfully tempting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 It's a much more sane world... much more relaxing! [emoji16] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+brian.srock Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 And that is why phosphates are your #1 reason people get out of the hobby. I've pondered the rage quit upgrade at times. I tell my wife it's her fault because I have a small tank but she wants all the fish and if I had a bigger tank I wouldn't have this problem. She's agreed though but I have to get her a bigger house first. If only there was a reputable realtor I could trust available. Do you feed pellets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I don't know of any but I know a good tank consultant if you need one! [emoji12] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 Let's just all switch to the Zeo system and live happily ever after! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Jeez, if you want to be even more of a slave to your tank, knock yourself out! I'm a glutton for punishment with SPS but having to keep up with all the dosing with zeo would drive me nuts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 Hey Ty how much GFO did you go through on your 125g? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I think I roughly used 1 cup per month. It kept my levels pretty stable at 0.03 ppm for 2 years with a moderate fish load and a tank full of corals. I was running a skimmer and biopellets too but no water changes during that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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