AI Sol vs Kessil A350w

[kmacc05]

I've been doing a lot of reading on lighting systems here lately for my first reef tank that I am in the process of setting up. I'm really wanting to go LED for cooler temps, less energy consumption and a sleeker look with no canopy. The tank is a standard 55 gallon. I thought I was set on the AI Sol Super Blue unit until re-looking at the Kessil A350w. Now the main reason I really like the AI Sol is the control ability factor. I really like the idea of setting sunrise/sunset, clouds and storms and not have to worry about it ever again unless acclimating corals and what not. When I first saw the Kessil lights, I wasn't planning on spending that much for lights, but I have soon educated myself on LEDs and decided not to go with the $100 chinese units I had in mind. So now I am looking at the Kessil's again and am torn between which ones.

My main concern: Is there any benefit to having the sunris/sunset and storms and all that jazz? Or is it all a selling point? Are corals going to have better growth being tricked to thinking they are in a "real reef" environment? Are fish going to be more relaxed? Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I am green when it comes to reef tanks. If there is no major benefit, I think the Kessil would be the better choice as for the wider spread and from what I've learned, better penetration.

Sorry to run on, but this is really bugging me. Thanks in advance for any help on the topic.

[victoly]

I personally like sunrise sunset because it gives you a longer photo period where you can view your inhabitants. As for storms, totally unnecessary and IMO don't look good as well as having a tendency to freak out fish.

In terms of kessil, and I'm just conjecturing here, but you may need 2 kessils to fully cover a 4 ft tank.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kmacc05]

Thanks for the input. I'm going to need two of either unit. Both at the same price plus an extra $85 for the controller for the AI Sol has got me torn. Another idea I had was to have one AI Sol unit right in the middle and then maybe two of the Kessil A150's on either side of the AI Sol. The Sol would then start the ramp up period and once the full light output is achieved (noon) then the Kessil's would come on. Then Kessils turn off say an hour before sunset starts to ramp down. Would this be a sufficient use of both lights?

[scubasteve92]

I love my AI sol super blue unit! The ability to control the color is awesome! As far as what to get, i dont know. I have looked at the new Kessils and really like them. I have considered doing another tank(maybe a cube) and putting one over it.

Have you looked at the vega's?

[victoly]

we are doing a tour with one of our sponsors in the next week or two (buildmyled.com) and they do custom units for a pretty cheap price.

[Kfennell]

The Maxspect razors have the built in sunset sunrise controlls like you want with dimming etc. They are also a 160w fixture vs 75w for the same price. Might want to consider them.

[victoly]

Thanks for the input. I'm going to need two of either unit. Both at the same price plus an extra $85 for the controller for the AI Sol has got me torn. Another idea I had was to have one AI Sol unit right in the middle and then maybe two of the Kessil A150's on either side of the AI Sol. The Sol would then start the ramp up period and once the full light output is achieved (noon) then the Kessil's would come on. Then Kessils turn off say an hour before sunset starts to ramp down. Would this be a sufficient use of both lights?

are you going to use a contoller like an apex at any point in the future?

[mFrame]

Most of the mid-to-higher level LEDs now offer dimmable functionality. Controllers allow you to program "sunrise" and "sunset" to ease the lights on and off. From everything I've read and know the lighting, clouds, etc. are 100% for the people in the house and not for the corals and fish. I've actually read about the lightning affect scaring fish and making them jump.

With our sponsors I think we've covered the gammut of everything you could want, from DIY to cheap generic units to high end. You'll find great prices on them all, but just have to decide which features are most important to you given your budget.

[jestep]

I will personally vouch for reef brite if you want another brand to look at. Their tech and xho strips are incredible. I am using 1 just for actinic lighting and there's a few other locals using them. Not sure if any are dimmer compatible though.

As far as sunrise/set, I typically run my actinics from morning to night and then switch on and off other lighting as the day progresses.

[victoly]

The only thing that I have to add to what mike said is that the differentiating factor in the super high end fixtures (radion comes to mind) is that you can split the color channels and tweak to your hearts content. While this may be necessary for very finicky aesthetists, seems that most people just pick the color spectrum they like and stick with it and aren't constantly tweaking.

[victoly]

I will personally vouch for reef brite if you want another brand to look at. Their tech and xho strips are incredible. I am using 1 just for actinic lighting and there's a few other locals using them. Not sure if any are dimmer compatible though.

As far as sunrise/set, I typically run my actinics from morning to night and then switch on and off other lighting as the day progresses.

yeah, this is nice because you can increase the amount of time your tank is lit without running into some of the heat/algae problems that you might encounter if you ran all lights 100% during your photoperiod. best of both worlds IMO.

[kmacc05]

I love my AI sol super blue unit! The ability to control the color is awesome! As far as what to get, i dont know. I have looked at the new Kessils and really like them. I have considered doing another tank(maybe a cube) and putting one over it.

Have you looked at the vega's?

I have looked at the Vega's but it doesn't seem too much better for the $100 more price tag.

we are doing a tour with one of our sponsors in the next week or two (buildmyled.com) and they do custom units for a pretty cheap price.

I'll see if I can wait that long. I've been itching to buy a light unit and I think this weekend is when I'm going to pull the trigger. Tank is just about through cycling so I need to get some lights on it asap.

The Maxspect razors have the built in sunset sunrise controlls like you want with dimming etc. They are also a 160w fixture vs 75w for the same price. Might want to consider them.

Hmmm haven't seen these. I will take a look at those and see what they are about. Any experience or personal review on them?

Thanks for the input. I'm going to need two of either unit. Both at the same price plus an extra $85 for the controller for the AI Sol has got me torn. Another idea I had was to have one AI Sol unit right in the middle and then maybe two of the Kessil A150's on either side of the AI Sol. The Sol would then start the ramp up period and once the full light output is achieved (noon) then the Kessil's would come on. Then Kessils turn off say an hour before sunset starts to ramp down. Would this be a sufficient use of both lights?

are you going to use a contoller like an apex at any point in the future?

I have looked into them but from what I've read, if the light has a built in controller then there is nothing else to really use these? I won't have auto dosing or anything like that. And an ATO has its own way of automation.

Most of the mid-to-higher level LEDs now offer dimmable functionality. Controllers allow you to program "sunrise" and "sunset" to ease the lights on and off. From everything I've read and know the lighting, clouds, etc. are 100% for the people in the house and not for the corals and fish. I've actually read about the lightning affect scaring fish and making them jump.

With our sponsors I think we've covered the gammut of everything you could want, from DIY to cheap generic units to high end. You'll find great prices on them all, but just have to decide which features are most important to you given your budget.

Awesome, I will also take a look in the sponsor section to gather more ideas.

[kmacc05]

The only thing that I have to add to what mike said is that the differentiating factor in the super high end fixtures (radion comes to mind) is that you can split the color channels and tweak to your hearts content. While this may be necessary for very finicky aesthetists, seems that most people just pick the color spectrum they like and stick with it and aren't constantly tweaking.

I won't be tweaking it all the time. Just until I find the look I want. Main reason for ramp up/down is for the mid day being a little warmer to help with coral growth. This is all just from info I have read through various forums and gathered from talking to others. But a lot of people seem to agree that the warmer light will aid in growth as the bluer light look really nice but doesn't grow quite as fast. I would like to have a nice automated mix of the two. During the day when I'm not home to view the tank, the lights would automatically change to the warmer light to benefit the corals. As the day ends and I am home with my family, I'd like the light to go to a bluer look before moon lights come on.

[victoly]

I have looked into them but from what I've read, if the light has a built in controller then there is nothing else to really use these? I won't have auto dosing or anything like that. And an ATO has its own way of automation.

they allow you to remotely monitor and control anything that can be plugged in. you can control the speed of your ecotech mp's or dim/brighten your LEDs. it's a pretty incredible tool and there is a dedicated forum section for it. Reason I ask is, if you choose to go that route later, a controller for the light unit itself is redundant, because the light can be controlled via the apex.

[victoly]

The only thing that I have to add to what mike said is that the differentiating factor in the super high end fixtures (radion comes to mind) is that you can split the color channels and tweak to your hearts content. While this may be necessary for very finicky aesthetists, seems that most people just pick the color spectrum they like and stick with it and aren't constantly tweaking.

I won't be tweaking it all the time. Just until I find the look I want. Main reason for ramp up/down is for the mid day being a little warmer to help with coral growth. This is all just from info I have read through various forums and gathered from talking to others. But a lot of people seem to agree that the warmer light will aid in growth as the bluer light look really nice but doesn't grow quite as fast. I would like to have a nice automated mix of the two. During the day when I'm not home to view the tank, the lights would automatically change to the warmer light to benefit the corals. As the day ends and I am home with my family, I'd like the light to go to a bluer look before moon lights come on.

Yeah, that seems to be the prevailing opinion. However I don't know that you need to necessarily turn down the blues during the day. They still provide usable light. What the most common approach is, in terms of timeline : blue -> blue+white -> blue -> moonlight.

[kmacc05]

I have looked into them but from what I've read, if the light has a built in controller then there is nothing else to really use these? I won't have auto dosing or anything like that. And an ATO has its own way of automation.

they allow you to remotely monitor and control anything that can be plugged in. you can control the speed of your ecotech mp's or dim/brighten your LEDs. it's a pretty incredible tool and there is a dedicated forum section for it. Reason I ask is, if you choose to go that route later, a controller for the light unit itself is redundant, because the light can be controlled via the apex.

You can only control certain leds with the apex or similar unit correct? The light has to have the function built into the board or am I mistaken? There is a possibility that Kessil's or a light of the like may not be able to work with apex or reef keeper,

[mFrame]

I

I have looked into them but from what I've read, if the light has a built in controller then there is nothing else to really use these? I won't have auto dosing or anything like that. And an ATO has its own way of automation.

they allow you to remotely monitor and control anything that can be plugged in. you can control the speed of your ecotech mp's or dim/brighten your LEDs. it's a pretty incredible tool and there is a dedicated forum section for it. Reason I ask is, if you choose to go that route later, a controller for the light unit itself is redundant, because the light can be controlled via the apex.

You can only control certain leds with the apex or similar unit correct? The light has to have the function built into the board or am I mistaken? There is a possibility that Kessil's or a light of the like may not be able to work with apex or reef keeper,

I believe that you're right in that the LED must have the Cat5 connector, someone else can hopefully provide specifics. It was my understanding that some of the controllers can actually "dim" the power via their controllable outlets which would seem to say that Cat5 is not necessary.

[victoly]

Yeah, if the light doesn't have a built in control, but is dimmable, you have to have a method of dimming the LEDs even if it's a constant, manual dim. There aren't any fixtures that require an APEX per se, but there are fixtures that require a dimming device to operate. The way the dimmable drivers for LEDs generally work is that you apply a voltage of 0-10v to 2 wires on the driver. 0 corresponds to 0% brightness and 10 corresponds to 100% brightness.

That being said, kessils are NOT dimmable fixtures, so they're just going to have on/off capability.

[victoly]

However, you can dim the AI fixtures via the VDM port on the apex. It's basically a wire that goes into your LED driver, and connects to your apex with a cat5 connector. However, if you don't plan on doing some heavy automating and want to start off more simply, the AI supplied controller would be more than adequate. If you get the kessil, a manual timer will be more than adequate.

[kmacc05]

Yeah, if the light doesn't have a built in control, but is dimmable, you have to have a method of dimming the LEDs even if it's a constant, manual dim. There aren't any fixtures that require an APEX per se, but there are fixtures that require a dimming device to operate. The way the dimmable drivers for LEDs generally work is that you apply a voltage of 0-10v to 2 wires on the driver. 0 corresponds to 0% brightness and 10 corresponds to 100% brightness.

That being said, kessils are NOT dimmable fixtures, so they're just going to have on/off capability.

OK I will look a little deeper into what I am going to do.

The first Kessil I mentioned, the A350w is dimmable by using two knobs on the top for either channel 1 or 2. So I thought that was the only was the Kessil could be dimmed. But is an apex or something similar can over ride and still do automated dimming, that might be the way to go. Thanks again for everyones input. I will do some more reading and let everyone know which unit I decide to go with.

[victoly]

Yeah, if the light doesn't have a built in control, but is dimmable, you have to have a method of dimming the LEDs even if it's a constant, manual dim. There aren't any fixtures that require an APEX per se, but there are fixtures that require a dimming device to operate. The way the dimmable drivers for LEDs generally work is that you apply a voltage of 0-10v to 2 wires on the driver. 0 corresponds to 0% brightness and 10 corresponds to 100% brightness.

That being said, kessils are NOT dimmable fixtures, so they're just going to have on/off capability.

OK I will look a little deeper into what I am going to do.

The first Kessil I mentioned, the A350w is dimmable by using two knobs on the top for either channel 1 or 2. So I thought that was the only was the Kessil could be dimmed. But is an apex or something similar can over ride and still do automated dimming, that might be the way to go. Thanks again for everyones input. I will do some more reading and let everyone know which unit I decide to go with.

Ah, i overlooked the A350w. It looks like you in fact can manually dim, but I don't see any product specs that say that you can remotely control the dim. I don't mean to push you in the direction of tank automation, I've just noticed that as people's tanks increase in complexity, they frequently tend to end up with a tank controller, whether it be APEX or one of the other controllers. There is a community of people on ARC who are proficient in the setup and can help you if you choose to go that way. Good luck on the light search and let us know!

[(Bio)³]

I have a feeling that you could remove the pot knobs from dimming and attach wires to lead to the apex. Might need resistors depending on the voltage on the pots but it could happen.

[ckyuv]

i have been using kessil 150 on this tank and LOVE it. my buddy has 2 of the 350's on his 90g and they are nuts. I will never use any light other than kessil. I have not tried al and have read great reviews but would not even consider anything other than kessil. Sorry for my biased answer I just think you cant go wrong with the led lights they make

[+KimP]

I've been using an AI fixture for more than a year and love it. No need to worry about them not penetrating all the way to the bottom. Used to have mine over a 28” deep tank and got great par readings at the sandbed and didn't even ever have it all the way cranked up. There are many great led options out there though. I just want to throw in the natural moonlight cycles. AI does it and I've heard of others, possibly apex too (?). I'm convinced corals respond to this moonlight cycle, at least the lps I tend to keep. I wouldn't want to run lights without it anymore. Just something to look at as you consider all the options. Oh and the clouds & lightening are cool but I've only bothered to run them when I first got it and when people come over and want to see it. Cool, but definitely not worth extra money. You can just watch videos of it on youtube.

[kmacc05]

Yeah, if the light doesn't have a built in control, but is dimmable, you have to have a method of dimming the LEDs even if it's a constant, manual dim. There aren't any fixtures that require an APEX per se, but there are fixtures that require a dimming device to operate. The way the dimmable drivers for LEDs generally work is that you apply a voltage of 0-10v to 2 wires on the driver. 0 corresponds to 0% brightness and 10 corresponds to 100% brightness.

That being said, kessils are NOT dimmable fixtures, so they're just going to have on/off capability.

OK I will look a little deeper into what I am going to do.

The first Kessil I mentioned, the A350w is dimmable by using two knobs on the top for either channel 1 or 2. So I thought that was the only was the Kessil could be dimmed. But is an apex or something similar can over ride and still do automated dimming, that might be the way to go. Thanks again for everyones input. I will do some more reading and let everyone know which unit I decide to go with.

Ah, i overlooked the A350w. It looks like you in fact can manually dim, but I don't see any product specs that say that you can remotely control the dim. I don't mean to push you in the direction of tank automation, I've just noticed that as people's tanks increase in complexity, they frequently tend to end up with a tank controller, whether it be APEX or one of the other controllers. There is a community of people on ARC who are proficient in the setup and can help you if you choose to go that way. Good luck on the light search and let us know!

Ok dont worry about pushing me any which way. I really appreciate all the time and info everyone has shared today. I also have looked into tank controllers, im just not too educated thus far. I really like the apex jr. I believe it can do all the same things as the other one just doesnt have an lcd screen and its smaller. Correct me if im wrong on that. Also, with a controller.... would my main lights be on a separate timer tyan moon lights? If i go with kessil, they cant be dimmed to moon lights so a separate moon light fixture will be neaded. But they would all be on timers so on and off of each one will be controlled?