+brian.srock Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 So I would like to know if anyone would like to give me some advice on how to improve my tank. I'd prefer it if someone can swing down to spend 30 minutes testing everythink for me and helping me fine tune my system. I finally have 0 algae in my tank after a huge outbreak and am now dosing vodka and 10ml kalk every other day. Now it seems i'm getting this weird gunk in my sump though. It also appears that I have lost all my coralline from my rocks and my duncans and brain coral have lost their color. Not sure if its a tank chemistry, lighting, flow, gfo/vodka issue or what. Everything seems to be doing fine and I haven't lost anything since I tackled the algae problem. Don't have much to offer at this time other than a few common frags. If I can find my diamond wheel then I can probably get a duncan frag but I need to check if its heathy enough first. I'm located off the 130 toll and MLK close to ABIA if anyone has free time sunday afternoon to check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offroadodge Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 its because the available nutrients in the water columb has been stripped. They call that a ULNS (ultra low nutriant system) i would imagine in a few weeks or a month when everything stabilizes to the new conditions that everything should start to turn around. Since there is no food for the corals to eat you may start target feeding your duncans and they will turn around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Brian, without knowing more about your tank history, I tend to agree with "dodge". Because I run high nutriant systems, I am not sure that I can help you achieve ultra low nutriants with results you desire. I tend to use herbivores to clean up micro algae. The natural eco-system of a reef would favor algae, if it were not for abundant algae grazers. Is vodka dosing the only thing that you have done different since the algae epidemic? How long have you been vodka dosing? Maybe your tank is drunk? Do you use activated carbon? Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 http://saltwater.aquaticcommunity.com/2012/carbon-dosing-in-laymans-terms/ It is 15 years sinve I have done carbon dosing. I have used sugar and vinegar with good results. Nowadays, I feed fish and filter feeders heavy. I am also skimmerless. I found the above link informative. Regards, Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+brian.srock Posted August 30, 2012 Author Share Posted August 30, 2012 I have a fluval with GFO and GAC and I've been doing vodka for probably 2 months now. ULNS makes sense since I generally feed every 3 days and its usually just mysis. I do feed cyclopise but not as often. That explains the coral colors and I'll look into some reef roids but any Idea on the clear stringy mucas looking stuff? I'm also concered that since I havent done as many water changer that I'm low in either calcium or alk or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juiceman Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Stringy mucus is Dinoflaggelettes. Siphon them out for sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerrickH Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Ive read more posts about dino here in the last month than ever before. I mean new posts. I swear this stuff is seasonal and with super low water levels everywhere here in the south, Im thinking this may be spawned from our water source... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+brian.srock Posted August 30, 2012 Author Share Posted August 30, 2012 If it's not one thing it's another. Luckily it hasn't really taken root and I have been manually pulling them out by hand. I'm going to throw some carbon on the sump inlets and change those out biweekly to go with my return pump cleanings. Here are some pics of it. These guys look like their doing alright up top Duncans looking very pale. I did feed some mysis and cyclopeze this morning and I'll check into getting some reef food soon. Brain coral is pale. I originally thought it was due to a very high flow I had from a mis-positioned pump Those 3 polyps have stayed like that for almost a year. Could be a lack of light since their under an overhang but thats just the way my rock stacks up. Coralline algae isn't as it use to be as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Calcium and alkalinity are a must for you to understand what is going on. At the least, you should be dosing iodine (removed by protein skimmer) and I would also dose with iron. Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+etannert Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 If you are going to dose you need to be able to test. Could you clarify whether you keep any tests at all on hand? At least you should be testing the big 3 - calcium, alkalinity and magnesium - every week or 2. It's much more expensive to loose all your coral than to buy a few test kits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+brian.srock Posted August 30, 2012 Author Share Posted August 30, 2012 I have been testing although I do not understand the proper way to dose alk and mag yet. I've just been doing 10% water changes weekly. I'll test tonight and post the info but I did get a 70 in chemistry. I just don't want to test and dose all the time which is why I just do the water changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 If you are keeping SPS, get ready for a life of dosing and testing. If you only have a small population of SPS, you can get away with water changes but they prob won't grow very quickly or have the coloration you want from them. But, like most things, you can get as anal as you want with it... some are happy just having SPS and aren't worried about optimum growth and optimum color. My work on my tank for sure increased 10-fold after I went heavy on SPS. I dosed manually, then went with dosing pumps, now I run a calcium reactor. Also went from timers, to a controller. Now that almost everything is automatic and stabilized, I test monthly versus biweekly to weekly like I used to. But, that was about 6 months of heavy testing and thousands of dollars of equipment before I got to that point. Getting back to your main issue however, I would agree with most, you prob have a ULNS and the coral are in shock because I'm going to guess it perhaps happened on the quicker side of things? Adding GFO and vodka dosing is typically initially applied incrementally and I can't tell by your post if you had the time to do that or not. When I tried to vodka dose, the initial removal of nitrates/phosphates from the water bleached out one or two of my LPS as well. They recovered just fine. I do however feed my tank everyday and have plenty of fish to add nutrients back into the water. I have also switched to biopellets as my carbon source instead of vodka. Lot less work in my opinion. And some actually advise to use carbon dosing methods to bring down your levels in your tank, but as a periodic method, not a continuous one. I just run mine continuous, but at a lower than advised amount (biopellets). If I was vodka dosing, I'd use it to initially bring down levels in my tank, then reduce my dosing drastically to more of a maintenance dosing amount. One thing though, I'd just be careful of adding the kalk to your system without really knowing what your calcium and alkalinity levels are. I compare it to adding salt to something your cooking without actually tasting it first. The food maybe a little saltier than you want! But the repercussion is not as simple as throwing away your food and ordering pizza, it's the death of your corals. As always, just my 2 cents and my experience with things. I am not by any means an expert. Also, I ditched biology for technology. Subsea is a great source for biology versus technology. -Ty 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+brian.srock Posted August 30, 2012 Author Share Posted August 30, 2012 I don't have many sps but they are all doing fine. I did apply incremental vodka dosing and I guess your right in that now that I beat the algae I can ramp it down slowly. I don't dose much kalk and my test kits always say i'm low on calcium. I wish I had the money to spend on more stuff but tighting the belt for the rest of the year with the exception of trying to fill my second tank by October. I am a technology for biology person and it's worked for me. The tank is now nearing it's 3rd year anniversary. I guess the dino was a weird seasonal thing and I'll chalk it up to that and clean whats hanging around which is all in the sump only. Put in some filter socks with carbon on my sump inlet to stop excess food from getting clogged in my return pump Pick up some reef specific food Ramp down my vodka dosing slowly Guess I'll stick to 10% water changes and just gotta get back into a weekly habit b/c even though I know how to test I don't know how to dose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 With respect to dosing made easy, get a calcium reactor. While I use arroggonite buffering with dsb sediments, if you optomized a calcium reactor, you would not have to dose. Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Haha, this is actually pretty funny (with respect to patrick and my continual back and forth of biology vs technology) but I'm not super high on calcium reactors! Patrick, i swear I don't just follow you around and disagree with you for fun! I feel like they pose a huge risk if they fail! I've been meaning to start a thread on dosing pumps vs reactors, and now seems to be the perfect time! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+brian.srock Posted August 30, 2012 Author Share Posted August 30, 2012 Picked up some kent marine zooplex so hopefully that'll take care of the pale coral colors. As for the calcium reactor I have read up on them and I'm sure they work better than my before process of putting it in my ATO bucket but unless I can find a very cheap dosing pump I'll just manually add kalk every other day to my tank since it does help. The problem I find with dosing is if you raise one then you lower the other but then you need to keep another one in check and that all sounds like I need a mad lab to get it going right. I'll read up on your dosing pump vs reactor thread though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Haha, this is actually pretty funny (with respect to patrick and my continual back and forth of biology vs technology) but I'm not super high on calcium reactors! Patrick, i swear I don't just follow you around and disagree with you for fun! I feel like they pose a huge risk if they fail! I've been meaning to start a thread on dosing pumps vs reactors, and now seems to be the perfect time!h When I operated a small coral farm, I found calcium reactors did everything I needed in one easy operation. I controlled using calcium concentrations. As long as both calcium and alkalinity were not pushed to their highest levels, this was the easiest automation that I have ever installed. When both are pushed to high concentrations, expect a calcium snowstorm. Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+etannert Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Dosing made easy: Test for X on day 1. Dose nothing. Test for X on day 2, preferably at the same time of day. Record the change. This is how much of X your tank uses per day. Pick up some B-Ionic 2-Part. Read the label, it will tell you how many mL of the supplement is needed to raise X by your needed amount. If you're dosing manually it's best to dose a set amount at a set time every day. I just got a Marine Color dosing pump. It's a knockoff brand from Hong Kong, but it looks like and functions just like a Bubble Magus doser. Including shipping and the tubing bracket, I paid just about $160, and it works great so far! Well worth it IMHO now that I'm back to working band director hours... i.e. never home. Between my ATO and my dosing pumps, I have great peace of mind about my tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Just to throw this into the mix Phormidium sp. cynobacteria comes in brown forms and can be "gelatinous growths with trapped air bubbles" and thrives in nutrient poor environments (one species has been linked to "black band disease"). Sprung in his book "Algae" reccommends "Higher food inputs to incourage stronger coral growth." I haven't seen this mentioned (or I missed it) but Delbeek and Sprung also discuss maintaining pH above 8.2 to help control problem dinoflagellates. DerrickH is right in there is usually an increase of algae issues in the summer. I'm more inclined think higher aquairum temperatures are to blame in many (but I won't say all) since my one tank that gets tap water is very well cooled and does not show seasonal shifts in algae growth where I do see some seasonal shifts in systems which see seasonal variations in temperature. I'm also fascinated by the myriad ways reef systems can be succesfully set up and maintained, this strikes me as one of the best arguments for biology vs technology. (And for those just reading this thread but are not too familiar with some of the particulars of dinoflagellates Borneman has a good introductory article here: http://www.reefkeepi...05/eb/index.php ). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Grog Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Seasonal doesn't suprise me. Moon phases effecting stuff wouldn't shock me either. That is how Mother Nature rolls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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