Want to hear from anyone using a DSB in their DT, also miracle mud for sump

[Planeden]

A few notes:

i have read that removing pests is a rite of passage that people should experience once, and only once. seriously, though. i was thinking that if i could get some cured live rock from an enstablished/trusted source, that pests may be minimized. but, my thinking may not be worth too much.

for cycling, i see what you are saying. i was thinking of using the craigsaddiction CUC link, and then another you mentioned i bookmarked on a different computer, as guides (sorry, can't remember it, but it may have been Dr. F_somebody). both are for DSBs. as well as plenty of requests for advice here. i liked the CUC's link's invert introduction plan. it stays way under the 50 snails per gallon rule and does more what i have done in my tanks for years. get algea, add an algea eater. not keeping up, add another. repeat until algea is no longer a problem.

my current plan (changing almost daily) is to use a DSB in the fuge and then maybe 1" in the display for asthetics. i'm sure it will also provide some extra filtration and critter homes, but not as much as the fuge. i may have a small section of sand that is deeper because the jawfish (or other burrowers) seems like a lot of fun. but i will also look into some PVC hidey holes victoly pointed me toward.

i am not sure whether it will be considered a lot of a little, but i am thinking that live rock will be mostly asthetics and homes/hides for life forms. i have not found an accurate denisty of rock to know how much my idea will weigh to put it in X lbs. per gallon perspective. but, the more i read, the more i see that you "need" between 0 and 500 lbs./gallon, or some range that to me makes it seem meaningless. so, asthetics, life, diveristy; any filtering is a bonus. i am assuming that you do not include live rock in your sumps since you don't use it for filtation?

[+KimP]

It sounds like you're really getting somewhere in your plans. I'm curious though what you think of doing a mud refugium instead of a dsb? Still having all the macros and such but without the dsb upkeep and concerns.

[Planeden]

It sounds like you're really getting somewhere in your plans. I'm curious though what you think of doing a mud refugium instead of a dsb? Still having all the macros and such but without the dsb upkeep and concerns.

blink blink...blank stare...i thought DSB and mud were the same thing. the guy, that epert one, dr. somebody or antoher, there on the site i was reading last night said "when we say mud we mean sand"!!!!

so, i guess those are my preliminary thoughts. i'll go pour myself a drink and see if i can stammer out a better thought. hehehe

[+KimP]

Lol, oh okay. A mud refugium is totally different. You use an inch of mud vs a dsb with 4"or so of sand. Did you go visit subsea today? He has both. A dsb in a display tank and a mud refugium under his old 75. Do you happen to be reading The Reef Aquarium vol 3? It's an excellent read and discusses all of these things.

[Planeden]

Lol, oh okay. A mud refugium is totally different. You use an inch of mud vs a dsb with 4"or so of sand. Did you go visit subsea today? He has both. A dsb in a display tank and a mud refugium under his old 75. Do you happen to be reading The Reef Aquarium vol 3? It's an excellent read and discusses all of these things.

oh. totally different, got it. i'll look into mud, too. but i do like the antfarm nature of the DSB, though. honestly, will need to reread this thread several more times to grasp the concepts in here, though.

i did not make it out to subsea's. i think (hope) it was more of an open ended invitation. my schedule is sort of booked up for a while.

i am not reading Reef Aquarium Vol 3. I looked at it, but it was $80 bucks. i got three other ARC recommended books and spent about the same amount. i am reading "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" by Robert Finner right now. Not much detail on substrate, but he does really like ozone . I really like the chapter he has on fish, though. i wonder if they have reef books on tape so i can read in the car and while doing laundry and stuff.

[Timfish]

I would really encourage you to get Vol III of "The Reef Aquarium" There is certainly nothing wrong with the approach outlined in "Chucks Addiction" and I like that he enorses patience in setting up a system. But there are certainly other ways to set up a reef system. How much live rock is certainly a huge variable that depends a great deal on personal preference and not on some magical number of lbs per gallon (as a gerneral rule of thumb rules of thumb are way too general to work with all the variables there are in marine systems ). Because of the difficulty of getting rid of some of the problem animals that may come in live rock I would always "cure" or quarintine live rock like I do fish and many inverts (by live rock I'm refering to wild collected live rock or maricultured live rock, some aquacultured live rock are just limestone with some bacteria cultures added and it would be cheaper in my opinion to use dry rock and a bacteria culture). A point I would like to make is in all the years of using live rock I have lost, by far, more livestock and money and time to BTAs than to krackon worms, mantis shrimp, rock crabs and aptasia combined. I have also had some really cool animals come in on wild or maricultured live rock and wouldn't consider setting up a tank without some.

[Planeden]

Thanks timfish,

Reef aquarium III is not exactly "on the way", but has been bumped up the to buy list. I brought up chucks addiction cycling method as an example of what I incision the process to be, not a recipe to put "add fish" on my calendar. Perhaps as a starting point questions as much as anything. No doubt I'll be reading other sources. But so far, that is the one I like best. Of course, that was before Kim blew my mind asking about mud .

I certainly have a lot to learn about rock. I will definately be asking about that either in a new thread or my build thread. But I was thinking that the maricultered rock would "safer" because it spends so much time in the owner's tank. But, with the water volume at those facilities it may be impossible to keep them pest free.

It is becoming clear to me that beginning my tank is probably going to delayed a bit. I did not imagine I would spend three days researching sand. But it's all good. Not like I have some sort of grand opening event that needs to debut the tank.

[subsea]

Dennis,

Yes, your invite was open ended. Come visit. We will clear up the topic of mud.

Patrick

[Planeden]

Dennis,

Yes, your invite was open ended. Come visit. We will clear up the topic of mud.

Patrick

Awesome thank you. I'm sure it'll be clear as...eh couldn't do it. I'll pm you.

[Timfish]

. . . But I was thinking that the maricultered rock would "safer" because it spends so much time in the owner's tank. But, with the water volume at those facilities it may be impossible to keep them pest free. .

I always think of maricultured as cultured in the open ocean and aquacultured as grown in tanks. In theory terrestial or dry rock that is aquacultured should be fairly free of problem animals but it's also free of many of the other organisms that contribute to a healthy reef ecosystem. Maricultured is cultured in the open ocean so it's animal diversity, some of which can not be purchased, is comprable to quality wild collected live rock that is transshipped. Boat rock is live rock that is shipped by boat and probably has had everything died off.

[Planeden]

Well, I'm definately going to with "what you think of" as correct. I'm making half this stuff up as I go along .

On a brighter note, Reef Aquarium III will be here early next week.