Chipp's Shallow Reef Starter

[chippwalters]

Been a few weeks since last posting. Missed ARC mtg today as I had to finalize my new tank build.

Here's the deal...been fighting a bunch of algae in my sand bed. I tried PhosGuard, all kinds of macros, water changes, nothing worked. It wasn't killing the tank, but it did take a LOT of time cleaning it each week. So, I decided to get a new sump and replace my old one which was just an empty tank with a skimmer, reactor, and activated charcoal bag along with Purigen bag.

So, I went to the store which I think has the cleanest tanks, Fishy Business, and talked with Shane. He has a different take on sumps and tank management than others, and after talking with him, I hired him to build me a 20 gallon sump for my 8 gallon tank + another 3.5 gallon tank. I like the fact he uses glass tanks for his sumps.

I paid for the sump, then a couple days later Shane called me and asked me to bring my skimmer down there for a fitting. I sketched up a sump modification I'd like to see, one which added some filter socks, which his didn't have. He didn't agree with the idea, and after a discussion, he refunded me the cost of the sump rather than make the modifications. He is so convinced of his sump design he'd rather lose a sale than make me something he didn't thing would work.

Turns out he SEALS off the intake chamber which keeps salt creep to ZERO. I looked at his sumps there in the store and didn't see much detritus and realized he really didn't need filter socks. Still, I sure did in my current tank. I showed him a few pics and we talked about my particular problem, and he pointed to two huge issues which he believed contributed significantly to my algae problem.

1. The first was the sand. And he was right that I just couldn't get the algae out of it. He showed the only tank in his store which had sand it had hardened and clearly created problems. He uses crushed coral and swears by it. He took a stick and stuck it into one tank after the other, stirring up the substrate-- and no detritus! OK then. I know what some say about CC, but his tanks don't lie. This is what he's using:
   
   
2. The other, and even bigger problem, is my not so live rock. When I started this tank, I already had some LR in my sump, so I bought some dead dry rock. I added some bacteria supplement and figured my "new" LR would be good to go in a month or so. That's what many on the forums say. Of course there was some cycling-- a fight with dino, which I finally won, then cyano, green hair, and finally some sort of brown algae which just started taking over.
   Shane said the rock wasn't really live. He said he didn't believe dry rock would be as good as LR until after a coupleof years passed. Wow. So, I did some research and didn't find out anything much. Later Timfish came by the house and actually told me that older LR has filter feeders and sponges in it which can add considerably to their function. He corroborated Shane's story.
   

I was sold. We swiped my card a third time (first time to buy, then to refund, then to buy again!) and Shane began the build.

It's actually pretty cool. Shane's not much into macro algaes or fuges, and pretty much discourages putting any macros in the sump at all. Instead, as I said, he's a live rock fanatic, and imports the BEST LR from Figi, but it's not called Fiji rock-- it's more porous and lighter. He recommends 1.5lbs LR per 1 gallon of water.

Here's a pic of it as it was being built in his shop. The Reef Octopus is mine.

The compartment to the right of the skimmer is to be filled completely with LR rubble. He has a foam filter which presses up against eggcrate as water passes through to the pump chamber. He also added a bubble trap between the LR chamber and the skimmer.

I just picked it up yesterday, and moved EVERYTHING around. Cleaned out my ADA 60-F, moved all the corals and fish to another holding tank, installed a new 1" bulkhead to replace the 3/4" one I had previously and routed Shane's flex pipe from the tank to the sump.

Today, I filled the sump with LR and reloaded the tank. Also, I added my Radion light fixture which I recently purchased on eBay and programmed it to be NOT so bright-- at least for the first weeks.

So, here are some pics:

Radion hanging above tank. I have 2 lines feeding from the sump. I'll fix it later so it's only 1.

Sump under cabinet. The cabinet I purchased awhile back as part of a full tank sale. It's sound-proofed and setup nicely for the sump! Nothing in the skimmer chamber yet other than a couple of heaters. Note I had Shane build 4 intakes (3 capped) so I can add other bulkheads from this tank and a second tank-- if I want to.

Kind of a crappy shot showing everything. Had to use some HDR magic or else the whole thing blows up with the Radion.

I finally did get all my corals back in the tank. I took the time to fresh water dip most of them. Managed to find my PomPom and a few brittle stars from the OLD 'not so live' rock, and will be giving it away tomorrow. It is pretty nice looking rock and I think it should work in a more mature tank.

So, I'll fire up some more images as soon as things settle down.

[(Bio)³]

Looking great! He doesn't use socks but instead the foam, he has his preferred mechanical filtration method lol.

[+boognish]

Coming along nicely. +1 for bio3s filtration comment. I'm curious what his logic for foam is that could be any different than a sock.

I warned you, chipp! This is how it starts... Nice little nano with a refugium yesterday. Just a little bigger sump and refugium and more live rock today. Tomorrow: "maybe this sump can support a bigger display of 90 gallons"... Next month: "well this 90 gallon sure would make a nice sump/refugium for that 240 gallon so-n-so posted on the forums!"

[chippwalters]

Looking great! He doesn't use socks but instead the foam, he has his preferred mechanical filtration method lol.

Right. And his filtration comes AFTER the LR and skimmer. He filters the water right BEFORE it enters the DT. Come to think of it, it does make sense.

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[chippwalters]

Coming along nicely. +1 for bio3s filtration comment. I'm curious what his logic for foam is that could be any different than a sock.

I warned you, chipp! This is how it starts... Nice little nano with a refugium yesterday. Just a little bigger sump and refugium and more live rock today. Tomorrow: "maybe this sump can support a bigger display of 90 gallons"... Next month: "well this 90 gallon sure would make a nice sump/refugium for that 240 gallon so-n-so posted on the forums!"

I think his logic focuses on two specific items.

1) Filter socks are messy, need to be cleaned often, and can be difficult to clean; unlike his "slab 'o foam." and, as mentioned previously, he prefers to filter the water just before the return pump.

2) based on his design, the first chamber is physically sealed, so there's zero chance of salt creep. Also, zero chance of putting a sock in it.

Yup, you're right about this thing getting out of hand. The wife is already asking why we don't have a bigger aquarium!

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[+brian.srock]

If the wife is asking for a bigger tank then you better make it about her and get her a big one. Gotta keep the wife happy!

[(Bio)³]

I like how he filters right before the pump... It explains why his tanks are so clean. I plan to make a similar sump, but I hate cleaning the foam slabs. I'm going to make an acrylic wall that water falls into a chamber that has 3 socks. Just grab, toss in washer and drop new socks in.

[chippwalters]

Had to come back early from MACNA, as the whole tank just died. At the show I did get some advice from Dr. Timothy A. Hovanec of Dr. Tim's Aquatics.

After explaining my current dillema, he said it sounded like silicone poisoning. Later in the day, my wife called and things had gone from bad to worse in my tank.

I rushed home and by the time I got home, everything was dead-- even my clownfish. And this was AFTER multiple successive water changes.

I'm 99% sure Shane uses the right silicone, but when I siliconed the drain hose to the overflow and the sump per Shane's directions, I used GE 100% Silicone II. Awhile back I did some research and this stuff looked OK, as it didn't say anything about mold inhibitors and there were some on forums (years ago) who said it was safe.

I let the connections cure 12 hours (too short it turns out) and now, as I research GE II, I find out the stuff is pure poison for aquariums. No wonder everything's dead.

Sad day. I thought it was the fresh water dip, or the abrupt switch of saltwater types, or the pH swing-- but now it's pretty clear, especially reading THIS.

Darnit. Back to square one. My best guesstimate is I lost over $500 of corals and fish, and now I'm not sure where to start. I suspect I need to break it all down, re-cure the LR if possible, throw out the drain hose and bulkhead and substrate, clean out the sump, and start all over. Bummer...

[victoly]

No me gusta ill have some sympathy frags for you when you're ready.

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[chippwalters]

Thanks for the kind offer. One of the last to go was the now well grown (4") big and beautiful Kenya tree frag you graciously gave me awhile back. I'll holler at you later (3 weeks?) when I'm ready to start again.

[Robb in Austin]

Sorry to hear about your losses.

[+brian.srock]

That sucks. I used the same silicon for my dividers on my sump. When your ready hit me up and I'll get you another duncan head.

[Stephen]

Horrible!! Sorry for your losses

[chippwalters]

Sorry to hear about your losses.

Thanks. This hobby can be challenging at times.

[(Bio)³]

Keep workin at it chip! I got a frag or two your welcome to during rebuild.

Sucks to have a crash

[chippwalters]

That sucks. I used the same silicon for my dividers on my sump. When your ready hit me up and I'll get you another duncan head.

Thanks Brian. Your Duncans were doing marvelously. The big one already had 4 or 5 heads and the little on had 3 heads.

Horrible!! Sorry for your losses

Thanks.

Keep workin at it chip! I got a frag or two your welcome to during rebuild.

Sucks to have a crash

Much thanks.

Just talked with Shane, and by process of elimination, he agreed it was probably my silicone. He says he uses the same silicone BUT he said he buys it by the case, and 1, sometimes 2 of the tubes are bad-- meaning the silicone won't cure completely, and for me to check my hoses and see if there's any slime indicating it's not cured. Silicone won't cure if wet and will keep poisoning the tank.

In any case, I'll need to shut the DT down and run the sump with water changes and GAC for a week, re-plumb the DT and let it cure, then rebuild.

Ugh. At least there's a plan.

[subsea]

Had to come back early from MACNA, as the whole tank just died. At the show I did get some advice from Dr. Timothy A. Hovanec of Dr. Tim's Aquatics.

After explaining my current dillema, he said it sounded like silicone poisoning. Later in the day, my wife called and things had gone from bad to worse in my tank.

I rushed home and by the time I got home, everything was dead-- even my clownfish. And this was AFTER multiple successive water changes.

I'm 99% sure Shane uses the right silicone, but when I siliconed the drain hose to the overflow and the sump per Shane's directions, I used GE 100% Silicone II. Awhile back I did some research and this stuff looked OK, as it didn't say anything about mold inhibitors and there were some on forums (years ago) who said it was safe.

I let the connections cure 12 hours (too short it turns out) and now, as I research GE II, I find out the stuff is pure poison for aquariums. No wonder everything's dead.

Sad day. I thought it was the fresh water dip, or the abrupt switch of saltwater types, or the pH swing-- but now it's pretty clear, especially reading THIS.

Darnit. Back to square one. My best guesstimate is I lost over $500 of corals and fish, and now I'm not sure where to start. I suspect I need to break it all down, re-cure the LR if possible, throw out the drain hose and bulkhead and substrate, clean out the sump, and start all over. Bummer...

Chip,

We will help you get back up and running. I do not know what is so poisonous about silicone during the curing process. Let us get some chemistry opinions on this. I have only seen fish die that fast, not because of poisoning, but due to low oxygen content. In that case, I had a 150G DT with all fish die off but no coral was lost. Dead fish were taken out and in my case emergency generators re-established circulation.

If you want to get your mind off the bad, come out and drink some beer and watch football. It being a dreary day, I am making a gumbo.

I would not assume that your rock and coral is dead. I have very large vats that can recure and isolate your stuff in filtered sunlight. This offer is only to you.

Patrick

[victoly]

GAC is kind of the miracle cure-all, and I use it extensively to clean some terrible contaminants out of groundwater. I'd use a pretty aggressive changing schedule, and don't worry about the "quality" of the carbon. At this point quantity is going to win the game. I've got quite a bit if you want some.

[chippwalters]

Chip,

We will help you get back up and running. I do not know what is so poisonous about silicone during the curing process. Let us get some chemistry opinions on this. I have only seen fish die that fast, not because of poisoning, but due to low oxygen content. In that case, I had a 150G DT with all fish die off but no coral was lost. Dead fish were taken out and in my case emergency generators re-established circulation.

If you want to get your mind off the bad, come out and drink some beer and watch football. It being a dreary day, I am making a gumbo.

I would not assume that your rock and coral is dead. I have very large vats that can recure and isolate your stuff in filtered sunlight. This offer is only to you.

Patrick

Thanks Patrick. You've always been there when I've needed a hand and it means a lot.

GAC is kind of the miracle cure-all, and I use it extensively to clean some terrible contaminants out of groundwater. I'd use a pretty aggressive changing schedule, and don't worry about the "quality" of the carbon. At this point quantity is going to win the game. I've got quite a bit if you want some.

Much appreciated. I've got anything that looks like it might possibly have a chance in a small tank with two bags of GAC.

Shane called and put forth a plan. He said to bring back all the LR I just purchased, and he'd replace it. He also gave me a new bag of substrate and a new filter-- which was awfully generous of him as this problem was only of my doing, not his, and he certainly owes me nothing.

I'm cleaning the new sump and will wait for it to dry out for a couple days-- same with DT. Then I'll silicone the drain in place and let it dry a couple days. Next, I'll fill the sump and DT with water, add substrate, some bacteria and a snail and small healthy frag, and watch for a couple days. If everything lives, we'll put in the new LR. If it doesn't I'll be quitting the hobby and selling it all real cheap! JK ;-)

[Radney711]

Really hate to hear that happen.... Let me know when you get ready to restock and I can help you out. I have some more superman mushrooms like i gave you at the meeting a couple months ago and a devils hand leather also you are welcome to. Good luck!

[Niko's Reef]

Sorry for the loss Chip. Sounds like u got a good team for help in place. Good luck with everything.

[chippwalters]

Really hate to hear that happen.... Let me know when you get ready to restock and I can help you out. I have some more superman mushrooms like i gave you at the meeting a couple months ago and a devils hand leather also you are welcome to. Good luck!

Thanks a bunch. That superman mushroom is shriveled into a little dot of flesh, but I've got it in a "hope nursing tank" and we'll see of anything comes of it.

Sorry for the loss Chip. Sounds like u got a good team for help in place. Good luck with everything.

Thanks for the good wishes.

[mFrame]

Really sorry to hear about the loss Chipp, and sorry you didn't get to stay and enjoy MACNA. Like everyone else, I've got corals I'm willing to provide frags of whenever you'r ready to start repopulating the tank.

[chippwalters]

Really sorry to hear about the loss Chipp, and sorry you didn't get to stay and enjoy MACNA. Like everyone else, I've got corals I'm willing to provide frags of whenever you'r ready to start repopulating the tank.

Thanks Mike. Hope you had a good time at MACNA. I'll catch up with everyone as soon as I've got a running tank again

[Juiceman]

Shane was always a good help and understanding. Glad he's helping you out with everything!