Juiceman Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Hey Guys, I'm about 2 Months in to my Reef Hobby. I have had a problem keeping a Hippo Tang Alive in my tank! I can't figure out what could be wrong. The first one I had always hid, never came out and never ate, died in about a week. The second, also never ate, but swam around plenty, died in about a week. The third was fat and happy, and swam around plenty, came home to find a spine fungus on him, and he died that night. The fourth was really skinny and didn't make it a day, never ate. The fifth was Fat and Happy, and bigger than any of the other ones, Only lasted 2 days, came home from work to find him dead. 90 Gallon Tank, 140 lbs Fiji and Tucani Live Rock, VHO's, 30 gallon SUMP, 200 Skimmer, Mag 18 return Plenty of Corals Purple Firefish Mckosker's Wrasse Sixline Wrasse Orange Anthias Sailfin Tang - added after the first 4 Fire Shrimp Skunk Cleaner Shrimp Peppermint Shrimp Coral Banded Shrimp CUC - etc 1.024-1.025 Salinity DKH - 10-12 usually Ph - 8.2-8.4 440-480 Calcium 0 Nitrates, Nitrites, Ammonia 77-78 temp Any Ideas would be great!!! It's in the living room so it has been suggested that maybe my Surround Sound might be messing with them. Anyone heard of this being a problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myvirtue Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 (edited) Qt tank ftw. 2months is early. Hippo tangs can die if u sneeze wrong. Tangs need space. Edited February 16, 2011 by Myvirtue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessie Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 are you buying them from the same store or site? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesL Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I also agree that your tank is very young at two months old. I would suggest letting your tank mature more, as you already have a good amount of fish in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb in Austin Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 First off, maybe you should quit trying with them. Not being an a##, but 5 already? I've given up on yellow coris wrasses after 2. I believe there are some fish we can't keep. (Not saying anyone/everyone, "we" being each person, some tanks can keep LPS, some can keep SPS, etc. I think it applies to fish as well.) That aside, how big is the sailfin? They are different genus but perhaps the ole tang rivalry was coming into play. Agree with the QT, although I don't run one. Where were you buying them? Were they eating there? How long did they have them before you bought? All your numbers look good. If you want something blue, look into blue reef chromis(Chromis cyaneus); hardy, active, can have more than 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juiceman Posted February 16, 2011 Author Share Posted February 16, 2011 are you buying them from the same store or site? the First was from Aquadome The next 4 were from Fishy Business Paid for the 1st, the rest were free replacments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juiceman Posted February 16, 2011 Author Share Posted February 16, 2011 First off, maybe you should quit trying with them. Not being an a##, but 5 already? I've given up on yellow coris wrasses after 2. I believe there are some fish we can't keep. (Not saying anyone/everyone, "we" being each person, some tanks can keep LPS, some can keep SPS, etc. I think it applies to fish as well.) That aside, how big is the sailfin? They are different genus but perhaps the ole tang rivalry was coming into play. Agree with the QT, although I don't run one. Where were you buying them? Were they eating there? How long did they have them before you bought? All your numbers look good. If you want something blue, look into blue reef chromis(Chromis cyaneus); hardy, active, can have more than 1. He was giving me replacments for free. Not getting anymore though, I got a Yellow instead. The Blue was bigger than the Salfin. It was swimming around eating well, lots of Zoe soaked brine. Was swimming around at 5 pm before work, dead and discolored at 10 when I got home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I definitely agree with Myvirtue you need a quarantine tank and Hippo's are notoriously skittish fish to begin with. With your water parameters I wouldn't usually have a problem putting in more animals but if you've had five deaths (for whatever reason) in a short time I would strongly urge you to wait 2 or 3 months before adding anything. My concern being you don't know what pathogens have been introduced to your tank. Adding more animals is going to be an additional source of stress for your existing animals and if a pathogen has been introduced stress will make them all the more susceptible. Robb reiterates a point I've been hearing since I first started a long time ago "every tank has a personality" maybe a Hippo (Regal, Dory etc.) isn't in the cards for this tank. I would point out we still know practically nothing about species, genus or family specific diseases and the differences between some of the fish we keep is greater the the differences between cats and dogs. Commenting specifically on the 5 fish you lost I'm inclined to think the one's that died in just a day or two already had a problem and the stress of being bagged again and acclimated again just pushed them over the edge. If you do try them again make sure you have some dither fish in the quarantine tank with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juiceman Posted February 16, 2011 Author Share Posted February 16, 2011 I definitely agree with Myvirtue you need a quarantine tank and Hippo's are notoriously skittish fish to begin with. With your water parameters I wouldn't usually have a problem putting in more animals but if you've had five deaths (for whatever reason) in a short time I would strongly urge you to wait 2 or 3 months before adding anything. My concern being you don't know what pathogens have been introduced to your tank. Adding more animals is going to be an additional source of stress for your existing animals and if a pathogen has been introduced stress will make them all the more susceptible. Robb reiterates a point I've been hearing since I first started a long time ago "every tank has a personality" maybe a Hippo (Regal, Dory etc.) isn't in the cards for this tank. I would point out we still know practically nothing about species, genus or family specific diseases and the differences between some of the fish we keep is greater the the differences between cats and dogs. Commenting specifically on the 5 fish you lost I'm inclined to think the one's that died in just a day or two already had a problem and the stress of being bagged again and acclimated again just pushed them over the edge. If you do try them again make sure you have some dither fish in the quarantine tank with them. I there a way I could check for any of the possible pothogens or something I should do to make sure they are removed. I have had no other fish loss than the Blue Tangs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juiceman Posted February 16, 2011 Author Share Posted February 16, 2011 I definitely agree with Myvirtue you need a quarantine tank and Hippo's are notoriously skittish fish to begin with. With your water parameters I wouldn't usually have a problem putting in more animals but if you've had five deaths (for whatever reason) in a short time I would strongly urge you to wait 2 or 3 months before adding anything. My concern being you don't know what pathogens have been introduced to your tank. Adding more animals is going to be an additional source of stress for your existing animals and if a pathogen has been introduced stress will make them all the more susceptible. Robb reiterates a point I've been hearing since I first started a long time ago "every tank has a personality" maybe a Hippo (Regal, Dory etc.) isn't in the cards for this tank. I would point out we still know practically nothing about species, genus or family specific diseases and the differences between some of the fish we keep is greater the the differences between cats and dogs. Commenting specifically on the 5 fish you lost I'm inclined to think the one's that died in just a day or two already had a problem and the stress of being bagged again and acclimated again just pushed them over the edge. If you do try them again make sure you have some dither fish in the quarantine tank with them. And a dither fish? I'm assuming Chromis or damsels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 If you really wanted a blue hippo and are considering buying another in the future I would suggest waiting for one to come up for sale on the club. Blue hippos should be left to the experts IMO especially acclimating them from the fish store to aquarium life. I lost a couple of blue hippos in the beginning, after more experience I bought 2 baby hippos and I QT them in my 75 gallon sump for almost 4 months before I introduced one of them to the tank and the other I sold to another member. Both fish are doing just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 And a dither fish? I'm assuming Chromis or damsels? My favorite is the Yellow Tail Blue damsel. They stay smaller than most of the other damsels. As far as testing for pathogens all I know of is the ol' eyeball test - look for spots black white and in between, blemishes especially red blotches, and discoloration. Make sure they're eating and have good body weight. Even laterally compressed fish like tangs should have smooth consistent profile from their face across the forehead and onto the back. if the fishes back is pinched so you can make out the line where the skull ends and the back begins it's under weight and also avoid pinched or sunken bellies. An overweight fish by contrast the back will arch out or "pillow" out from the skull line. Hydro makes a good point, you'll have better success if you can find one that someone needs to get rid of one for some "good" reason. The good news from my experience is once they've acclimated to an aquarium they can be very hardy and should live decades I forgot, avoid cloudy eyes also. As far as Chromis, my experience and what I've seen in others tanks is they have poor long term survival. It's tempting seeing a picture of a bunch of them together but I'd avoid them. I have much better luck with anthias but they would be an expensive dither fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juiceman Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 I have an Orange Anthias in the main tank. No Damsels though. I saw no problems with any of those signs on any of the hippos Ive had except for one really thin one. And a dither fish? I'm assuming Chromis or damsels? My favorite is the Yellow Tail Blue damsel. They stay smaller than most of the other damsels. As far as testing for pathogens all I know of is the ol' eyeball test - look for spots black white and in between, blemishes especially red blotches, and discoloration. Make sure they're eating and have good body weight. Even laterally compressed fish like tangs should have smooth consistent profile from their face across the forehead and onto the back. if the fishes back is pinched so you can make out the line where the skull ends and the back begins it's under weight and also avoid pinched or sunken bellies. An overweight fish by contrast the back will arch out or "pillow" out from the skull line. Hydro makes a good point, you'll have better success if you can find one that someone needs to get rid of one for some "good" reason. The good news from my experience is once they've acclimated to an aquarium they can be very hardy and should live decades I forgot, avoid cloudy eyes also. As far as Chromis, my experience and what I've seen in others tanks is they have poor long term survival. It's tempting seeing a picture of a bunch of them together but I'd avoid them. I have much better luck with anthias but they would be an expensive dither fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medi Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Like someone pointed out hippos will die if you sneeze wrong. They just tend to initially be a very fragile fish. I have one in my tank now that I have had for about 8 months. It is fat and happy now, but when I first added it the very first thing it did was cause a huge ich out break. Once I got everything over that I have seen no more problems. I would let your tank mature for a while before even contemplating the addition of a 6th hippo. Also, you might consider adding a UV sterilizer just in case there is a free floating microbe that is causing all of the problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juiceman Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 Would a biocube work as a QT tank? how big should I make sure it is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBMarlin Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Hi Juiceman, I had the exact same problem as you where I went through 3 Hippos before I finally figured out the problem. We both have (had) the same offending fish, the problem is your Sailfin Tang. Sailfins are notoriously aggressive fish and I would imagine your Hippos are just hiding as soon as you introduce them into the tank and probably are dying from either lack of food, stress or both. My Sailfin was a medium size fish for my 80G but not huge (4" maybe) and the Hippos I was introducing where 2" or so. I've had my current Hippo for 9 months now and he's fat and happy and not tormented by any other Tangs! EDIT: Doh, I just re-read your original post. I'll leave this here just in case someone else is thinking about introducing a Hippo tang in a sub 100G system that already contains a Sailfin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juiceman Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 The 1st 4 hippos died prior to me having a Sailfin in the tank. So that was not the problem Hi Juiceman, I had the exact same problem as you where I went through 3 Hippos before I finally figured out the problem. We both have (had) the same offending fish, the problem is your Sailfin Tang. Sailfins are notoriously aggressive fish and I would imagine your Hippos are just hiding as soon as you introduce them into the tank and probably are dying from either lack of food, stress or both. My Sailfin was a medium size fish for my 80G but not huge (4" maybe) and the Hippos I was introducing where 2" or so. I've had my current Hippo for 9 months now and he's fat and happy and not tormented by any other Tangs! EDIT: Doh, I just re-read your original post. I'll leave this here just in case someone else is thinking about introducing a Hippo tang in a sub 100G system that already contains a Sailfin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+lewk Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I would just wait on hippos altogether. Like others have said, they can be finicky at first and it sounds like something is stressing them out. Do you add any vitamins or garlic to the food? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polarbear Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Just courious. How fast will a hippo tang grow. Ive seen them at my local pet store and they are about an inch long or just under that. Just wondering how fast they grow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juiceman Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 I add Zitamins to the Brine Garlic to the Blood Worms and Both to my Mysis the flake I use has garlic I would just wait on hippos altogether. Like others have said, they can be finicky at first and it sounds like something is stressing them out. Do you add any vitamins or garlic to the food? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Would a biocube work as a QT tank? how big should I make sure it is? Yes a bio cube should work but bigger is always better. You probably should do more frequent water changes of a larger percentage so take into consideration how much time you want to spend cleaning it in deciding tank size. Here's a link to a thread about a month ago about them if you're interested in more opinions: http://www.austinree...arantine-tanks/ I don't know if you've found these websites but they are pretty good sources for info: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ http://www.advancedaquarist.com/ I have wasted many hours looking through them. One of the best books I've come across for fish diseases is "Aquariology: The Science of Fish Health Management" Edited by Dr. John B. Gratzek and Ms. Janice R. Matthews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Just courious. How fast will a hippo tang grow. Ive seen them at my local pet store and they are about an inch long or just under that. Just wondering how fast they grow. Based on the experiences I've had over the years most tangs grow less than an inch a year. There are obviously exceptions and I'm inclined to think there are social factors that influence their growth so if there is a group one will grow alot faster and others may not grow much at all but that's based on personal observations I haven't seen any research on this. I also suspect that future research may show that like other animals a diet optimized for growth is not a diet optimized for longevity. We still don't know what the maximum life expectancy is for these fish although I am very comfortable giving an average (barring disease and accidents) of at least 15 - 20 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juiceman Posted February 19, 2011 Author Share Posted February 19, 2011 I'm getting a cube, and I'm going to try and quarantine one and see if I have better luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Just courious. How fast will a hippo tang grow. Ive seen them at my local pet store and they are about an inch long or just under that. Just wondering how fast they grow. Mine doubled in size after about 4 months, 1.5" to 3" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juiceman Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 Update! Quarantine Tank I have a 29 gal Biocube up and running with 35 lbs of Live Fiji Rock. Everything tested ready so I got a good size Blue Hippo and a Cleaner Shrimp from River City. It looks good with no signs of Ich and is good size. It swims up to the cleaner shrimp and parks, but so far I haven't seen the Shrimp clean him. I'm not sure if I just need to wait for the shrimp to come around or if there's nothing to clean. The Cleaner shrimp in my Main 90 gallon tank has always gone for the previous hippos to clean them, so i'm thinking about moving him into the quarantine also since I know he recognizes Hippos. But so far so good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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