Momentary lapse of will power

[Will]

I saw him at aquatek and had to get him. The photo does not do him justice, he is bright red.

[+Lamont]

Is that a frog fish?

[Will]

Leaf Fish

[+mcallahan]

what else do you have in the tank with him?

[Will]

a cackatoo waspfish and a large firefish. He is only about 2" long.

[Kkiel02]

As you probably know keep an eye out for your other fish as they will eat anything. Very nice coloring! It always amazes me how well they have adapted/ camoflaged.

[Will]

yea the waspfish is also a scorpion and is about 4 inches. All three will be going into my new 40gal breeder that i am setting up. the firefish is very big and far too large for either of the scorpions.

Im also going to be putting the following fish in the tank with them when it is set up

Ambon waspfish (if i can find one)

Blue leaf fish (if i can find one)

Fu Man Chu lion (if i do not find the ambon)

Kole tang or Rabit fish (i know about tank size requirements, i will select a juvi and replace him when he outgrows the tank)

White ribbon eel or banded snake eel (if i can find one and if i get a new skimmer)

[Quicksilver525]

cool bro, good luck with ur aggressive tank i had one back in the day. i will be starting a new one soon but its going to be a secret little project hehehe

[Derek]

That is awesome! I love leaf fish. They are really neat.

[Will]

yea i was lucky to find one this brightly colored, although aquatek charged accordingly

[Will]

do you think two dragon pipefish would be able to live with my scorpions?

[DaJMasta]

To my knowledge, pipefish are generally kept in species only tanks because they are so passive. Even fish considered non-aggressive or semi aggressive are too much for them. Also nice fish.

[Brooks]

That thing is cool!

[caferacermike]

Just because you think they won't try to eat your firefish, I can assure you that you are wrong. In fact, the scorpion fish may try to eat each other. I have several pics around of dead frogfish that encountered each other in the wild. They will try to swallow the other fish, this leads to suffocation. Sure sure, you say. Call BS if you want to. Then go and check my own threads about how my 2 $200 frogfish attempted to eat a Sohal Tang (my Holy Grail tang) that was twice the size of my frog, as well as a nice Tomenti tang that I added at the same time. Next morning all 4 fish were dead. I posted pics of frogfish with tangs only half swallowed and spines sticking out of the sides of the frogfishes.

All I'm getting at is that you might want to reconsider what you said about the firefish.

[stoneroller]

I agree with Mike. That's a bit risky. I have a nice home for that firefish as he'll either jump or go down (so to speak). On your future plans, that seems to be a high bioload for a 40 esp. if you plan to feed all those fish!

[Will]

the leaf fish (Taenianotus triacanthus) is 2" long and will get a max of 4" when it reaches adulthood it could possibly eat the firefish, but the firefish is almost 4" long and is extremely aggressive. the waspfish (Ablabys taenionotus) is 4" long and has a very tiny mouth (can only eat 1/3 piece of krill at a time), he is full grown.

These are both scorpions not frogfish (completely different type of fish, and yes frog fish or anglers will eat things much larger than themselves)

I do weekly 25% water changes

As far as the bioload is concerned the leaf fish and the waspfish will get a max of 4", The ambon will get around 5". I feed every three days.

As far as the firefish goes (i believe the ambon would be able to eat it), i may decided to remove it when i change tanks due to how aggressive it is.

[Crab Rangoon]

These are both scorpions not frogfish (completely different type of fish, and yes frog fish or anglers will eat things much larger than themselves).

I've had a handful of Taenianotus leafs before, and while most of mine were totally docile, they also never really had much company in the tank either. Regardless of their size, all of the camouflaged opportunistic predators are typically willing to bite off more than they can chew. I'm not a naysayer here, and your leaf & wasp should be ok together (though wasps certainly tend to be more active & aggressive than leafs), but even Rhinopias will take shots at whatever they can, even if it's their own kind and they've been successfully kept with one another for months.

Your best bet, honestly, is to train the fish to feed from tongs, or by hand. Sure, there's loads of people who will discourage the hand-feeding, but with as slow as the leaf is, and as short as it's spines are, there is very little probability for that margin of error to result in a sting - we're not talking about a lion here. Anyhow, the 40 breeder should be a good size for these guys, and while 4" may not sound like a very large size for the fish, be aware that when that large - the 2" guys are indeed edible.

You may also want to introduce some coral or plantlife (even if it's not real) that matches your leaf. It's sure to give him a spot to call home, in the tank, as they'll happily stay near & blend in. Without it, the red color is sure to fade to something else more native to your tanks interior - ask me how I know. I've had yellow, green, purple, and red, but truly they're all the same color in the end. If you purchased it based on it's red merits, it's definitely worth taking the extra step to ensure it keeps the color nice & vibrant. Dragons Breath would be a great addition, and is VERY easy to maintain & control, not to mention it's a perfect match for your fish.

[Will]

Thanks, yea right now im using the net method on the leaf, as he is only accepting live at this point. the wasp eats from a feeding stick. I was actually wondering what i should put in the tank to induce him to keep his color (i bought a red angler a few years ago and had it turn into a brown anger).

Right now he seems to be blending in with my red coraline algae (this is the part of the tank he usually sticks to)

Where do i find dragons breath?

[Crab Rangoon]

I got mine from a friends refugium, I'm sure if someone doesn't come across this thread reading that you want some, you could post in the WTB/WTT section trying to get some. Only decent photo I found with a quick search was: http://www.wamas.org/forums/uploads/1233516108/med_gallery_2631654_455_16687.jpg

It grows slow & steady, and typically does not root to rocks. I have a barebottom tank, so without being able to bury the base/roots of the plant, I just jammed it between two rocks, and it's done perfectly fine.

Also, I strongly suggest adding more Leafs to your collection once moved into the breeder tank. Unlike Lions & Anglers, the Leafs will definitely group together, and interact with one another. It's certainly more entertaining (and IMO interesting long term) to have that grouping & behavior, than to focus on having a collection of many different individual specimens - but whatever floats your boat. I know many more people who enjoy their Rhinopias & Taenianotus long term, without losing the initial charm that sparked the purchase, than I know keepers of Angler & Scorp types. Hope that helps.

[Will]

Thanks for the advice. I was planning on getting at least one more Taenianotus once I upgrade, do you think three would be better than 2? also do you think that 1 waspfish, one Ambon scorpion (i really like the look of these) , and three Taenianotus would be ok in a 40? I could always get rid of the firefish, but i would like to have at least one free swimming fish in the tank.

[Crab Rangoon]

Thanks for the advice. I was planning on getting at least one more Taenianotus once I upgrade, do you think three would be better than 2? also do you think that 1 waspfish, one Ambon scorpion (i really like the look of these) , and three Taenianotus would be ok in a 40? I could always get rid of the firefish, but i would like to have at least one free swimming fish in the tank.

Yeah, honestly I kept my pair (1.5" + 2.75") in a 12g nano, fed every 3-4 days, and never had any issues with water quality, territorial behavior, or skinny fish You have to consider with these kinds of predators that they have a much slower metabolism & rate of using their energy - because they don't swim around. This means that you can easily get away with feeding only twice a week, keep them happy, and often only need to change the water once a month.

For total stock ideas, I'd say you could certainly have 3-4 Leafs (I suggest >2.5-3"), your 4" Wasp, 1 2-3" Ambon, and/or perhaps a FuManchu. You'll see much more interesting behavior exhibited, and maybe even nicer camo patterns, if you stick with using pretty low wattage plain lighting and grow some non-invasive plants. Just an idea, versus plain liverock, or corals (which will be more light than these fish care for).

[Will]

Im pkanning on having high lighting with alot of caves and overhangs

Would that still be ok

[+KeeperOfTheZoo]

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+717+238&pcatid=238

Min tank size for 1 scorpion is 30g and I think these online sites really advertise the bare minimum tank size because its in their best interest for selling fish. 1 scorpion in a 40g would be good. 3? Do the math. Get a bigger tank or smaller fish. There are times watching my fish swim and maintain their territories and habits that I think the 5 I have in my 125 are as many as I should have, and I too have a couple that are not free swimmers or thaty spend a good part of their time hidden in the rocks.

[Crab Rangoon]

Min tank size for 1 scorpion is 30g and I think these online sites really advertise the bare minimum tank size because its in their best interest for selling fish. 1 scorpion in a 40g would be good. 3? Do the math. Get a bigger tank or smaller fish.

On this same note, I would never suggest somebody kept a Neon Tetra in any aquarium smaller than 10gal, but that certainly doesn't mean that a 10gal tank can only hold one or two of them. I'm basing my suggestion upon experience both in home and at work - especially as I've kept multiple specimens of the fish in question. If you'll notice, all the fish I'd listed all stay rather small, grow alarmingly slow, and do not swim, much less move very much. I made sure to even suggest sizes at which to purchase them (all of which were at/under 3") in order to make sure they would all make suitable cohabitants, rather than just wind up feeding on one another. I hope that when pointing this out, you can better understand what I was suggesting, rather than simply mis-reading that I wanted him to overstock his tank.

Also, for what it's worth, the Leaffish are rather fond of one another, and will stay pretty tight knit most of the time. Having 2 or 3, rather than a single specimen, will certainly have a small change on your bioload, but they really flock together quite well and don't take up extra room.

Will, how much rock were you planning to keep in the aquarium? If we're talking a 40 breeder, it's wide and tub-like, rather than long and skinny, and you've got a lot nicer of a footprint for these guys to roam around. I wouldn't stress keeping too much rock, as it will encroach quickly on how much space these fish will have. This sounds like it will be a fish-focused tank, rather than a coral reef type, so I wouldn't worry about having much more than ~25lb of rock. You'll find that having more rock will often mean seeing these fish less so don't give em too much to hide behind!

[Will]

Im planning on having about 25-35 lbs and it will be lps and ricordia dominate with some sparse sps. As far as fish go, i think im going to just do three leafs, the wasp, and the fire fish. i will also plant some macro's. Liz, i fully agree with you that it is better to understock rather than overstock, but the 2" leaf i have in my 16 gallon has not moved more than 4" from its present location in the last three days.

please review the following links for more information about the leaf fish

http://www.midwestma...sh/id/leaf-fish

http://saltaquarium....p/pleaffish.htm

http://www.aquaticco...onfish/leaf.php

http://www.advanceda...om/2006/12/fish

here is a 40 breeder whose rock looks similar to what im thinking