Rjohn Posted April 4, 2010 Share Posted April 4, 2010 I have a 72 gallon bowfront with the risers for outflow and return. Today at long last I installed a new (well new to me) 20 gallon long DIY sump. I carefully hooked everything back up and got water running. O MY GOD this thing is noisy! The outflow riser is sucking water so hard and the bubbles going into the sump are just about blowing water over the edge. I tried cutting a piece of white filter and that didn't help. I put a tube down the outflow and that didn't help. Any ideas about how to quiet this beast? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted April 4, 2010 Share Posted April 4, 2010 I have a 72 gallon bowfront with the risers for outflow and return. Today at long last I installed a new (well new to me) 20 gallon long DIY sump. I carefully hooked everything back up and got water running. O MY GOD this thing is noisy! The outflow riser is sucking water so hard and the bubbles going into the sump are just about blowing water over the edge. I tried cutting a piece of white filter and that didn't help. I put a tube down the outflow and that didn't help. Any ideas about how to quiet this beast? Do you have a U trap under your tank? I put a U trap in the drain so that it it reduces the splashing sound. I also angled the drain pipe inlet side ways so that the gurgling stopped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rjohn Posted April 4, 2010 Author Share Posted April 4, 2010 I am not sure what a U trap is. I don't think I have the option of angling the drain pipe. At one time, there was a little round cap thing that went over the outlet hole but it was always clogging up with algae so I stopped using it. I am hunting for that now but I am having trouble finding it. I didn't used to be such a pack rat. Can I get a picture of the U trap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rjohn Posted April 4, 2010 Author Share Posted April 4, 2010 This tank came with a mag 9.5 return pump. Is the problem perhaps that the outflow is trying desperately to keep up with the 9.5, hence the gurgling sounds from the outflow. If I used a smaller return pump say a mag 7, would that solve the problem? In light of that, does anyone have a mag 7 pump that I can borrow for an afternoon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted April 4, 2010 Share Posted April 4, 2010 Hmm, I don't think that is the problem. If that were the problem you would be seeing your display tank start to overflow and your sump water levels drop. It would also seem like you needed to top it off. I am trying to get a good picture of my tank now, but in short, I put a U-trap like what is under a kitchen sink. I just dropped the drain pipe straight down, did the U, went up about half way, then went horizontal to where the sump inlet is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted April 4, 2010 Share Posted April 4, 2010 Here is an old drain pipe that I made: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rjohn Posted April 4, 2010 Author Share Posted April 4, 2010 I see. What your trying to do is slow down the rush of water down the outflow. The U makes it back up a bit, hopefully eliminating the noise. Ok Let me see if I can work that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted April 4, 2010 Share Posted April 4, 2010 Yep, exactly. It also gets most of the big bubbles out of the flow and reduces some splashing. Just make that the pipe that goes into the sump is a little below the surface of the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rjohn Posted April 4, 2010 Author Share Posted April 4, 2010 Thanks Derek. I appreciate the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted April 4, 2010 Share Posted April 4, 2010 Anytime. Let me know if you have any questions about making it. It took me several tries to get the design right. My co-habitant is noise challenged, so if my tank makes even a gurgle he complains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rjohn Posted April 4, 2010 Author Share Posted April 4, 2010 My wife is the same way. I am picking up the parts tomorrow after lunch with friends. I'll let you know tomorrow evening. I am not noise challenged but man is this thing loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rjohn Posted April 4, 2010 Author Share Posted April 4, 2010 Derek, I installed the Utube a little while ago and I want to thank you again for your and input. The noise is reduced by 90%. Both my input and outlet have ball valves on them and I had to close them about 35 or 40% but it is working very well indeed. The noise is reduced by 90 or 95%. I am getting a very small gurgle from the Utube and aspiration make take care of that. The only down side is that the Utube is in the space where my topoff reservois sat so the missus will have to find some way of hiding the 5 gallon bottle. Let her consider it a challenge. When my camera gets home Tuesday, I will post a picture or two. I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+cyrus Posted April 4, 2010 Share Posted April 4, 2010 I'll be trying that design also derek. Also I don't know if it will help but I installed a T with a return from my return back into the sump with ball valves for 100% controll of flow. If you put a ball valve only on the return line it will cause your pump to work harder and burn out faster. That should save you from getting a smaller pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted April 4, 2010 Share Posted April 4, 2010 Awesome. I'm glad helped. I definitely want to see a picture. If you ran out of room that just means it is time for a bigger tank with a bigger stand... isn't that how it works? Haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rjohn Posted April 4, 2010 Author Share Posted April 4, 2010 Well I am not much of a pipefitter. All that gluing, sawing, fitting, and the **** thing leaks. Not much but enough that I will have to redo yet again. I will have to buy all new parts cause once they are glued, they stay glued. Maybe the salt buildup will seal the leak. I should get so lucky. I have a bowl under the drip and I will keep tabs on it for a week or so. I am not up for doing it again this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmelhiser Posted April 5, 2010 Share Posted April 5, 2010 Here is an old drain pipe that I made: Really curious about the length of the drop from the top to the U. I've not tried this, but it sure seems like a long fall and a short U is going to end up with overflow, not to mention the right angle extension distance? I have a gurgling HOB overflow that I would love to silence. Right now, I am using a ball-valve in the fall to restrict the fall until it hit's the right value to relieve the gurgle by building up in the overflow chamber. Much like I suspect the U trap does by using the right amount of atmosphere. The problem I have with my current configuration is the potential for clog in the ball valve (often cause by hungry snails or curious fish I suspect). Knock on wood, I've not had this yet (watch tomorrow it will be clogged). How much guess work is there in the fall value and the up-stand value when designing this? As I am thinking about it, I suspect it would take an almost +1 atmosphere value change to cause it to come back up 3/4 the distance of the fall without external pressure. By god, you've done it again Holmes, let's build this thing. If it fails, plug in the noisy one, right? I really like this design, it let's critters travel the distance without suddenly finding a spot in the pipe that they out grew during their journey. (however, let's just hope they all don't go on a journey at once... follow me, I know the way to the promised land... fill in the rest of the joke on your own)! Thanks for the ideas... -t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted April 5, 2010 Share Posted April 5, 2010 Well I am not much of a pipefitter. All that gluing, sawing, fitting, and the **** thing leaks. Not much but enough that I will have to redo yet again. I will have to buy all new parts cause once they are glued, they stay glued. Maybe the salt buildup will seal the leak. I should get so lucky. I have a bowl under the drip and I will keep tabs on it for a week or so. I am not up for doing it again this week. The salt can seal it up. You may want to get some plumber's glue. You can apply it to the outside of the fittings and seal it up. It shouldn't be too much of a problem since the water isn't pressurized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted April 5, 2010 Share Posted April 5, 2010 Really curious about the length of the drop from the top to the U. I've not tried this, but it sure seems like a long fall and a short U is going to end up with overflow, not to mention the right angle extension distance? I have a gurgling HOB overflow that I would love to silence. Right now, I am using a ball-valve in the fall to restrict the fall until it hit's the right value to relieve the gurgle by building up in the overflow chamber. Much like I suspect the U trap does by using the right amount of atmosphere. The problem I have with my current configuration is the potential for clog in the ball valve (often cause by hungry snails or curious fish I suspect). Knock on wood, I've not had this yet (watch tomorrow it will be clogged). How much guess work is there in the fall value and the up-stand value when designing this? As I am thinking about it, I suspect it would take an almost +1 atmosphere value change to cause it to come back up 3/4 the distance of the fall without external pressure. By god, you've done it again Holmes, let's build this thing. If it fails, plug in the noisy one, right? I really like this design, it let's critters travel the distance without suddenly finding a spot in the pipe that they out grew during their journey. (however, let's just hope they all don't go on a journey at once... follow me, I know the way to the promised land... fill in the rest of the joke on your own)! Thanks for the ideas... -t When I do mine, I have the U be almost touching the ground. My current on is about two inches from the base of the stand, then it comes up to about two inches above the sump, then goes horizontal, then drops down into the sump. I don't use any valves in mine, but yes, it would take a valve to cause a bit of back pressure to cause it to backup. I think it would require a bit more than one atmosphere considering that we're dealing with water and not a gas. The only thing I have is a cupeling so that I can remove the drain pipe easily if I need to clean it. I have never had it clog and I have had it going for about 10 months. Mid-May will be a year. I have had a few fish go through the piping. They were perfectly fine when they got into the sump. Shrimp go through it all the time when I feed live feeder shrimp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted April 5, 2010 Share Posted April 5, 2010 I'm in North Central Austin. If anyone wants to come take a look at the design I did for my drain pipe just let me know. I'm pretty crafty with PVC so I can also help come up with ideas for your own U-trap drain if you're interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted April 6, 2010 Share Posted April 6, 2010 Hey Rick, did the leak get sealed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rjohn Posted April 6, 2010 Author Share Posted April 6, 2010 Yea I think it did. This 2nd effort is much much quieter than my first effort. I shortened the bottom of the U by half and that seemed to help a lot. I looked at your picture closer. I'd like to find a master plumber that can help me understand the science behind this so I could figure out the optimal build. Now I got to figure out how to make my topoff work. My water level got a little higher than I like. The light I have hooked into the system paid off once again telling me that the pump was running way too often. I have the sensor in the 3rd chamber but I think the system is not as balanced as it could be. I think the water level in the chamber kinda cycles up and down a bit. I may need to put my sensor in the tank itself. We'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted April 6, 2010 Share Posted April 6, 2010 I had built a few different ones my first time around as well. Those couplings come in handy. You can really swap them out fast if you need to. It makes it easy to clean as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bull Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 I have a 72 gallon bowfront with the risers for outflow and return. Today at long last I installed a new (well new to me) 20 gallon long DIY sump. I carefully hooked everything back up and got water running. O MY GOD this thing is noisy! The outflow riser is sucking water so hard and the bubbles going into the sump are just about blowing water over the edge. I tried cutting a piece of white filter and that didn't help. I put a tube down the outflow and that didn't help. Any ideas about how to quiet this beast? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bull Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 I used a piece of 1/4 in plex. glass installed at an angle and let the water run down it and that takes out the splashing from the bottom. For the top i took a piece of p.v.c. pipe drilled holes in it ond wraped it with filter floss and that helped my sanity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rjohn Posted April 7, 2010 Author Share Posted April 7, 2010 where did you find a piece 1/4 inch plexi glass? Do you have a picture of the top? Some of us are imaginatively challenged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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